show only browse

Sun Sep 19 19:25:46 PDT 2010

  Thanks much, John.  I'm hoping that my ranting was just a binge as 
well.  And thanks for the explanation below.  Now that I understand your 
methods and reasons, it makes good sense to me, and I hope others will 
benefit from it.

Bruce

On 9/19/10 1:40 PM, John Esak wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Thank you very much for your apology. Actually, I said I would be surprised,
> but I'm not. You are a good guy and I was kind of hoping you had just jumped
> off the reservation for a binge.
>
> Gut, honestly, look at your thoughts again even in this message.  I'm aware
> that a DISPLAY (something) will  "appear" to bring down a browse... And if
> that's enough for you, the SWITCHTO in Richard's final example will work,
> also.  But, what Ken and I were getting at. At least, what I was getting at
> prodded by Ken... Was exactly what command should be used to bring down a
> browse.  And, truly, the only one is CLEARB.  There is something to be said
> for putting it in no matter what comes after that might also clear it by
> some "accident" of that next command.  My feeling is that to be a good
> programmer, you should know and do exactly what is required by each function
> to use it.  If you use a browse with the show=only option... Then the
> correct thing to do is use the CLEARB when you want it to go away.  If
> someone wants to argue it's an extra step when a DISPLAY (something) will
> also seem to do it. I would argue back that it's just better style to
> complete any action initiated.
>
> To my mind, this is much like starting a subroutine from an @key... And then
> in the subroutine using and END statement.  Yes, it ends the @key and you
> may be where you want to be, but do you not think it would be better
> programming to RETURN back out of the subroutine, and then hit your END
> statement?  I do.  And, in fact, that is all I'm trying to get at with the
> show=only browse.  Just because  some other action might clear the screen...
> YOU still haven't purposely brought down that browse yourself.  So, it kind
> of agrees with Mark's suggestion that using code that works, but not being
> exactly sure of why it works... Is going to byte you at some point in the
> future.  God, did I just agree with Mark?  :-)
>
> But, anyway, I won't push this point. It is only a matter of style.  I'm
> always shooting to write the best code I can. So that in the future, when I
> die and all the historians find my hard drives in the nuclear rubble 10,000
> years from now, I'll be able to sit proudly in my hyper-space recreation of
> my 20th century existence.  There might not be much else to be proud of way
> out there in infinity land.
>
> But, thank you for your nice words and for your apology. I hope you don't
> feel I hit back too hard. We all feel we are only trying to be helpful on
> this list and none of us would have to take any kind of disparaging comments
> from anyone.  I'm glad yours were unmeant in the way I read them.
>
> John
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
>> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
>> m] On Behalf Of Bruce Easton
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:50 AM
>> To: Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>> Subject: RE: show only browse
>>
>> John - I do apologize for sounding arrogant about this.  I do
>> really take your
>> enormous input on this forum very seriously, so regardless of
>> how I feel about
>> an issue, you should be treated kindly.  I was more than a
>> little arrogant.
>>
>> I did pre-test the very simple solution that I provided for
>> Richard's  question.
>>   I now realize that in my code, it is the "display (sn)"
>> command which is
>> restoring the original screen that is bringing down the
>> browse, not @key ending
>> as I had previously asserted.  The rapidly moving target of
>> trials and questions
>> (for along time without anyone except me providing any code),
>> utilizing @entsel
>> and other techniques did not leave me to test my working
>> example differently.
>> So I was wrong about the ending of @key.  When I saw your
>> last post, asserting
>> the need for clearb, I looked again at my working code and
>> realized no, you
>> don't necessarily have to use clearb.   I think it would have
>> helped me, others
>> and future readers if someone would have responded to the
>> simple example I
>> posted and would have responded much earlier to
>> mis-information that I was
>> giving with respect to the @key ending. If I've already
>> posted a good example,
>> and then treated like I'm in a vacuum, no wonder I'm going to
>> continue to post
>> incorrect info.  For instance, I believe, to date, no one
>> besides me has
>> commented on the usage of the display command for this.
>>
>> But again, I apologize for my arrogance towards you and the
>> other posters - I
>> should know that serves no purpose.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> Bruce Easton
>> STN, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting John Esak<john at valar.com>:
>>>
>>> I'm sorry Bruce your "statements" were ignored because they are dead
>>> wrong.
>>> You are a little arrogant in passing them on as the way
>> things are when
>>> filepro does not work that way.   I think everyone is trying and has
>>> been
>>> trying to tell you that @key processing absolutely does NOT
>> bring down
>>> a
>>> browse... Show=only.  Perhaps, Richard's confusion was
>> aided and abetted
>>> by
>>> all the misinformation that *you* were injecting into the
>> thread, just
>>> as
>>> you have done here in this message.
>>>
>>> Will you please show me in the source code, or have Ken
>> print out the
>>> precise command that clears a show=only browse when an @key is
>>> pressed....
>>> At any point in there... Go ahead... I'm waiting.  Oops, but wait a
>>> minute,
>>> you are so completely wrong about this, that I'll be waiting quite a
>>> while.
>>> Maybe I won't hold my breath.  Um, id you ever stop to
>> think that using
>>> @key
>>> to put up a show=only browse would be immensely moronic if it were
>>> *immediately* cleared by the @key itself?  Guess not.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mind you spreading misinformation... We all do it, you a
>>> little
>>> more than most, and more forcefully... But try and have
>> some humility
>>> man.
>>> It's good for the soul.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> P.S. - Sorry for the direct rudeness, I just copy on to
>> what has been
>>> messaged to me as you know.  Treat me nicely, I treat you nicely in
>>> return.
>>> Treat me like dirt, and I treat you like dirt in return.  I
>> know it's
>>> hard
>>> for some to understand this mode... But after 30+ years of
>> this kind of
>>> shit... I  am just too tired to play games over stupidity.  To think
>>> that a
>>> browse is automatically brought down because it is done in an @key
>>> displays
>>> a total lack of understanding, but more importantly tells
>> very clearly
>>> that
>>> you didn't even take the 11 seconds it would have taken you to just
>>> *try* it
>>> yourself.  So, arrogance and stupidity, good combination.
>> Good luck.
>>> Now, this is where everyone says, Oh John, you're so mean.
>> Of course,
>>> they
>>> won't add up the time wasted by the idiotic comments in the thread.
>>> No,
>>> instead they will just leave the list like Alan did. (By the way, he
>>> called
>>> me and told me *why* he was leaving... I'm not "assuming" anything
>>> here.)
>>>
>>> For anyone sucked into this very bad and misinformed ending to this
>>> thread,
>>> I apologize.  However, check out the behavior Bruce exhibits when he
>>> realizes he was wrong.  Do you think the word "apologize" will come
>>> out?
>>> Let's see.  This should be educational.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
>>>> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
>>>> m] On Behalf Of Bruce Easton
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:38 PM
>>>> To: Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>> Subject: RE: show only browse
>>>>
>>>> Two inline posts below - Bruce, STN, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> Quoting John Esak<john at valar.com>:
>>>>> Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm one of those who got caught up in your first description and
>>>>> surmised
>>>>> that you wanted to do something a little different than
>> the final
>>>>> explanation.  My apologies.  But, honestly, if this is
>> your *final*
>>>>> code, I
>>>>> don't understand why you even need a SWITCHTO since putting up a
>>>>> show=only
>>>>> browse does NOT change the current screen. But even more
>>>> important, you
>>>>> *still* don't have the single thing Ken, and I and everyone
>>>> was asking
>>>>
>>>> because IT IS NOT NEEDED.  The mis-information continues.
>>>>
>>>>> for... A specific command that takes the browse down.
>> Why not put a
>>>>> ;clearb
>>>>> immediately after the   show "@"?  As far as I know,
>> and Ken will
>>>>> confirm..
>>>>> . SWITCHTO does NOT clear a browse.  So, nothing is
>>>> learned, nothing is
>>>>> gained.  It works for the nebulous reasons Mark mentioned.
>>>> (Of course,
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't know where this code is, @ekey, @entsel, AUTO... It's
>>>> all in the
>>>>> huge
>>>>> thread somewhere, but if this is finality... It doesn't clear up
>>>>> anything.)
>>>>> Don't worry, I know the pressures of just handling one's
>>>> everyday work
>>>>> doesn't allow time for these niggling threads, that we
>>>> sometimes put up
>>>>> just
>>>>> to help others in the first place.  But, just for me, would
>>>> you please
>>>>> assert that you *do* know there should be a CLEARB somewhere.
>>>> NOT TRUE. Not needed for that type of browse where @key
>>>> processing will end.  NO
>>>> wonder Richard was confused with questions being asked of
>>>> him.  Maybe people do
>>>> not understand the difference between @key and other triggers
>>>> with respect to
>>>> how they affect other commands. I guess again, my other post
>>>> about what is
>>>> clearing the browse in this case, where I stated it was the
>>>> @key processing
>>>> ending, was ignored.
>>>>
>>>>> I mean,
>>>>> just
>>>>> because SWITCHTO clears the screen and puts up a new screen
>>>> without any
>>>>> of
>>>>> the old browse shown again... Does not mean it was brought down
>>>>> correctly.
>>>>> That is not a functional part of SWITCHTO, it's just an
>> accidental
>>>>> effect.
>>>>> Ken was asking were you doing any of these things that
>>>> might clear the
>>>>> browse sort of accidentally, I do not think he was
>> suggesting it as
>>>>> good
>>>>> programming.  -John
>>>>>
>>>>>> Browse
>>>>>> show "@"
>>>>>> switchtoo sn  (browse closes)
>>>>>> END
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>>>>
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