show only browse
John Esak
john at valar.com
Sun Sep 19 10:40:32 PDT 2010
Bruce,
Thank you very much for your apology. Actually, I said I would be surprised,
but I'm not. You are a good guy and I was kind of hoping you had just jumped
off the reservation for a binge.
Gut, honestly, look at your thoughts again even in this message. I'm aware
that a DISPLAY (something) will "appear" to bring down a browse... And if
that's enough for you, the SWITCHTO in Richard's final example will work,
also. But, what Ken and I were getting at. At least, what I was getting at
prodded by Ken... Was exactly what command should be used to bring down a
browse. And, truly, the only one is CLEARB. There is something to be said
for putting it in no matter what comes after that might also clear it by
some "accident" of that next command. My feeling is that to be a good
programmer, you should know and do exactly what is required by each function
to use it. If you use a browse with the show=only option... Then the
correct thing to do is use the CLEARB when you want it to go away. If
someone wants to argue it's an extra step when a DISPLAY (something) will
also seem to do it. I would argue back that it's just better style to
complete any action initiated.
To my mind, this is much like starting a subroutine from an @key... And then
in the subroutine using and END statement. Yes, it ends the @key and you
may be where you want to be, but do you not think it would be better
programming to RETURN back out of the subroutine, and then hit your END
statement? I do. And, in fact, that is all I'm trying to get at with the
show=only browse. Just because some other action might clear the screen...
YOU still haven't purposely brought down that browse yourself. So, it kind
of agrees with Mark's suggestion that using code that works, but not being
exactly sure of why it works... Is going to byte you at some point in the
future. God, did I just agree with Mark? :-)
But, anyway, I won't push this point. It is only a matter of style. I'm
always shooting to write the best code I can. So that in the future, when I
die and all the historians find my hard drives in the nuclear rubble 10,000
years from now, I'll be able to sit proudly in my hyper-space recreation of
my 20th century existence. There might not be much else to be proud of way
out there in infinity land.
But, thank you for your nice words and for your apology. I hope you don't
feel I hit back too hard. We all feel we are only trying to be helpful on
this list and none of us would have to take any kind of disparaging comments
from anyone. I'm glad yours were unmeant in the way I read them.
John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> m] On Behalf Of Bruce Easton
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:50 AM
> To: Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> Subject: RE: show only browse
>
> John - I do apologize for sounding arrogant about this. I do
> really take your
> enormous input on this forum very seriously, so regardless of
> how I feel about
> an issue, you should be treated kindly. I was more than a
> little arrogant.
>
> I did pre-test the very simple solution that I provided for
> Richard's question.
> I now realize that in my code, it is the "display (sn)"
> command which is
> restoring the original screen that is bringing down the
> browse, not @key ending
> as I had previously asserted. The rapidly moving target of
> trials and questions
> (for along time without anyone except me providing any code),
> utilizing @entsel
> and other techniques did not leave me to test my working
> example differently.
> So I was wrong about the ending of @key. When I saw your
> last post, asserting
> the need for clearb, I looked again at my working code and
> realized no, you
> don't necessarily have to use clearb. I think it would have
> helped me, others
> and future readers if someone would have responded to the
> simple example I
> posted and would have responded much earlier to
> mis-information that I was
> giving with respect to the @key ending. If I've already
> posted a good example,
> and then treated like I'm in a vacuum, no wonder I'm going to
> continue to post
> incorrect info. For instance, I believe, to date, no one
> besides me has
> commented on the usage of the display command for this.
>
> But again, I apologize for my arrogance towards you and the
> other posters - I
> should know that serves no purpose.
>
> Bruce
>
> Bruce Easton
> STN, Inc.
>
>
>
>
> Quoting John Esak <john at valar.com>:
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry Bruce your "statements" were ignored because they are dead
> > wrong.
> > You are a little arrogant in passing them on as the way
> things are when
> > filepro does not work that way. I think everyone is trying and has
> > been
> > trying to tell you that @key processing absolutely does NOT
> bring down
> > a
> > browse... Show=only. Perhaps, Richard's confusion was
> aided and abetted
> > by
> > all the misinformation that *you* were injecting into the
> thread, just
> > as
> > you have done here in this message.
> >
> > Will you please show me in the source code, or have Ken
> print out the
> > precise command that clears a show=only browse when an @key is
> > pressed....
> > At any point in there... Go ahead... I'm waiting. Oops, but wait a
> > minute,
> > you are so completely wrong about this, that I'll be waiting quite a
> > while.
> > Maybe I won't hold my breath. Um, id you ever stop to
> think that using
> > @key
> > to put up a show=only browse would be immensely moronic if it were
> > *immediately* cleared by the @key itself? Guess not.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind you spreading misinformation... We all do it, you a
> > little
> > more than most, and more forcefully... But try and have
> some humility
> > man.
> > It's good for the soul.
> >
> > John
> >
> > P.S. - Sorry for the direct rudeness, I just copy on to
> what has been
> > messaged to me as you know. Treat me nicely, I treat you nicely in
> > return.
> > Treat me like dirt, and I treat you like dirt in return. I
> know it's
> > hard
> > for some to understand this mode... But after 30+ years of
> this kind of
> > shit... I am just too tired to play games over stupidity. To think
> > that a
> > browse is automatically brought down because it is done in an @key
> > displays
> > a total lack of understanding, but more importantly tells
> very clearly
> > that
> > you didn't even take the 11 seconds it would have taken you to just
> > *try* it
> > yourself. So, arrogance and stupidity, good combination.
> Good luck.
> >
> > Now, this is where everyone says, Oh John, you're so mean.
> Of course,
> > they
> > won't add up the time wasted by the idiotic comments in the thread.
> > No,
> > instead they will just leave the list like Alan did. (By the way, he
> > called
> > me and told me *why* he was leaving... I'm not "assuming" anything
> > here.)
> >
> > For anyone sucked into this very bad and misinformed ending to this
> > thread,
> > I apologize. However, check out the behavior Bruce exhibits when he
> > realizes he was wrong. Do you think the word "apologize" will come
> > out?
> > Let's see. This should be educational.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com
> > > [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
> > > m] On Behalf Of Bruce Easton
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:38 PM
> > > To: Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > Subject: RE: show only browse
> > >
> > > Two inline posts below - Bruce, STN, Inc.
> > >
> > > Quoting John Esak <john at valar.com>:
> > > >
> > > > Richard,
> > > >
> > > > I'm one of those who got caught up in your first description and
> > > > surmised
> > > > that you wanted to do something a little different than
> the final
> > > > explanation. My apologies. But, honestly, if this is
> your *final*
> > > > code, I
> > > > don't understand why you even need a SWITCHTO since putting up a
> > > > show=only
> > > > browse does NOT change the current screen. But even more
> > > important, you
> > > > *still* don't have the single thing Ken, and I and everyone
> > > was asking
> > >
> > > because IT IS NOT NEEDED. The mis-information continues.
> > >
> > > > for... A specific command that takes the browse down.
> Why not put a
> > > > ;clearb
> > > > immediately after the show "@"? As far as I know,
> and Ken will
> > > > confirm..
> > > > . SWITCHTO does NOT clear a browse. So, nothing is
> > > learned, nothing is
> > > > gained. It works for the nebulous reasons Mark mentioned.
> > > (Of course,
> > > > I
> > > > don't know where this code is, @ekey, @entsel, AUTO... It's
> > > all in the
> > > > huge
> > > > thread somewhere, but if this is finality... It doesn't clear up
> > > > anything.)
> > > > Don't worry, I know the pressures of just handling one's
> > > everyday work
> > > > doesn't allow time for these niggling threads, that we
> > > sometimes put up
> > > > just
> > > > to help others in the first place. But, just for me, would
> > > you please
> > > > assert that you *do* know there should be a CLEARB somewhere.
> > >
> > > NOT TRUE. Not needed for that type of browse where @key
> > > processing will end. NO
> > > wonder Richard was confused with questions being asked of
> > > him. Maybe people do
> > > not understand the difference between @key and other triggers
> > > with respect to
> > > how they affect other commands. I guess again, my other post
> > > about what is
> > > clearing the browse in this case, where I stated it was the
> > > @key processing
> > > ending, was ignored.
> > >
> > > > I mean,
> > > > just
> > > > because SWITCHTO clears the screen and puts up a new screen
> > > without any
> > > > of
> > > > the old browse shown again... Does not mean it was brought down
> > > > correctly.
> > > > That is not a functional part of SWITCHTO, it's just an
> accidental
> > > > effect.
> > > > Ken was asking were you doing any of these things that
> > > might clear the
> > > > browse sort of accidentally, I do not think he was
> suggesting it as
> > > > good
> > > > programming. -John
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Browse
> > > > > show "@"
> > > > > switchtoo sn (browse closes)
> > > > > END
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > > >
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