FW: Answering the phone WAS: Licensing snafu

[Ron Kracht]

I don't think the numbers are going to make any difference. The dominant 
culture in this country speaks English. The language of the academic 
world is English, the language of the business world is English. With 
individual exceptions aside, to succeed in this country requires a 
command of English. In my opinion, no flood of illegal immigration is 
going to change that.  Arguments like "these people are different from 
previous immigrants", "their motives are different", "their loyalties 
are elsewhere" were made during every past wave of immigration and all 
of those people (or their descendants) , given the opportunity, 
integrated into the dominant culture.  Each of them had their own effect 
on changing the dominant culture - as a nation we have been very 
successful at integrating the best of other cultures into our own. I 
have every faith that we will continue to do so.

I will say that,cultural issues aside, I spoke with someone recently 
whose opinions about security issues I greatly respect  and who is 
involved in national security issues on a daily basis.  He told me that 
in his opinion virtually everything we have done so far is window 
dressing and reactive in nature and much of it is more harmful that 
helpful. He put the customs databases in the "more harmful than helpful" 
category and told me privately several tales of their abuses. He 
indicated that if we really want to get serious about national security 
we'd clamp down tight on immigration.  He expressed no cultural fears 
and was not focused on Hispanic immigration. He advocated borders that 
were shut down tight and a thorough vetting process for _all_ 
immigration. He seemed to feel that we haven't done this because there 
were consequences that the people in charge now were unwilling to accept 
- the implication was that these were economic consequences rather than 
political consequences. I'm not sure how I feel about this since I'm not 
sure that what we gain in security is worth what we lose in the 
essential nature of this country, but, as I said, I greatly respect his 
opinion and his expertise. He gave me a lot to think about.

Ron


John Esak wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Carey [mailto:wtcarey at tx.rr.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:27 AM
> To: john at valar.com
> Subject: Re: Answering the phone WAS: Licensing snafu
>
> A major difference between this influx of Latinos and other immigrant waves 
> in this country's past is the numbers involved.
>
> If you accept the lower estimates of the latest wave of illegal immigration,
>
> it is 12 million, the upper estimates are 20 million. Using the lower 
> estimate, that works out to a population of 50,000 new illegal immigrants in
>
> 240 cities.
>
> By the way.... there are approximately 240 cities of 100,000 or more people 
> in the US.
>
> If you use the upper estimate of 20 million, the numbers are 50,000 new 
> illegal immigrants in 400 cities.
>
> This is a wave of population importation unlike anything seen in the prior 
> history of the US.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Esak" <john at valar.com>
> To: "Filepro-List at Lists. Celestial. Com" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:28 PM
> Subject: RE: Answering the phone WAS: Licensing snafu
>
>
>   
>> second and third generation Hispanics. I know second and third
>> generation Americans of Hispanic origin who speak English as well as
>> anyone and would expect the historical patterns to hold given time.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>     
>
> I would guess that some historical patterns will hold and reoccur, but other
> influences, such as instant communication and new mediums and media every
> day are changing things.
>
> There is great cultural significance in 1st generation and 2nd wanting to
> divest themselves of their language and customs and become *Americans*. This
> precise goal is what, I think, has been lost. I spent most of my youth being
> extremely left wing, extremely liberal, and extremely naïve. I spent many
> cold and hungry days going to Washington, DC to march for the rights of
> black people. Nothing upsets me more these days when I see all the work and
> effort and pain and grief and spirit I put into that cause going to waste,
> to find that now, these people want to be "black" Americans, not Americans.
> This is the crux of the splintering factor that is going to destroy the
> great melting pot. It is happening within the Mexican crisis. They want to
> be Mexican Americans.... Our parents and theirs did not want to be Irish
> Americans, Italian Americans and so on... true, that is what they are, but
> ask *any* one of them who and what they are, and to a person they will say
> "I am an American"... and they will be so proud of that
> fact/achievement/standing.  Ask most blacks today even the most
> free-thinking of them and they will undoubtedly call themselves black
> Americans. It almost makes me regret all the fighting and pain I went
> through on behalf of that cause. (almost... I said...)  Would I do it all
> again, knowing what I know now?  I don't think so. I never wanted a
> splintered, sectional America. I thought I was fighting for equality and
> unanimity, not Al Sharpton or Oprah's viewpoint of we are black and we are
> separate.... and nothing you can ever do will change that. Well, they seem
> to be right about that... and are actively perpetuating it.
>
> Give me back the time when I could just say Bill Cosby is a brilliant, funny
> man, without having to say Bill Cosby is a brilliant, funny black man. He at
> least, I know, would want the former and not the latter.
>
> John Esak
>
>
>
>
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