filePro Programmer shortage

[Brian K. White]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fairlight" <fairlite at fairlite.com>
To: <filepro-list at seaslug.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: filePro Programmer shortage


> Four score and seven years--eh, screw that!
> At about Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 03:49:54PM -0500,
> Jay Ashworth blabbed on about:
> [snip entire lot]
>>
>> And *I* think that someone needs to give free lessons in trimming email
>> messages when you quote them in a reply.
>
> And -you- didn't because...?
>
> Glass house.  Throw stones.  Don't.

He may not have for the same reason I might not have if I were making that 
particular point.
The high ratio of history to current was itself the point of his post and so 
it's one (not the only) entirely logical and defensible approach to preserve 
the evidence and re-resent in a way that can't be missed. Another entirely 
logical and defensible approach might be to be to set the desired example 
even in the same post that raises the point, but it's debatable which of the 
two ways you could go provides the clearest message _to the intended 
recipient_. Trimming away the very thing you are talking about, but then 
saying, "all that stuff is cumbersome", in a post that is not cumbersome, 
does not really send a clear message, or at least, it probably doesn't to 
the only people who need to get the message. Both approaches have valid 
arguments for and against, and generally, In cases like that where there is 
really no justifiable right or wrong, only opinions and personal 
preferences, I find that overall it adds only sand and no oil to the social 
machine to go out of my way to remark one way or the other.

Did I just do what I just said I don't do? I don't think so. I didn't go so 
far as to tell you to leave them alone the way you told him to trim his 
posts.

What I did was have a viewpoint that causes me to leave him alone, and 
causes me to wish you had left him alone, and what I did about it was 
present that viewpoint for your acceptance or rejection as you see fit. Or 
more likely/hopefully, rejection followed by gradual integration. Or even, 
rejection accompanied by some explanation of your own philosophy that maybe 
I will gradually integrate. Anything is possible in a world that made the 
paltypus and the worlds largest ball of string.

Why did I say anything at all? Do I really care how much people trim their 
posts? No.
What I do care about is people being unecessarily uncivil to other on this 
list, because it causes people to dislike the list, and makes the list less 
of a resource for ME. I don't ask a lot of questions generally, so it might 
not be apparent, but for the most part, even the most terrible, terrible 
"pretty pathetic and amatuerish" as John put it, has been instructive for me 
in some way. Even if only by pointing out common pitfalls people fall into. 
But really, I don't even mean to say it's mostly the value of negative 
examples. Everyones brain works a little different and seeing other peoples 
code, even if I only like 1% of it, that 1% is valuable because I couldn't 
materialize it out of nothing. It has to come from outside. I already know 
all my own tricks and already fall into familiar ruts with their familiar 
limitations when attempting to solve new problems.

I have both a thick skin, and a supremely contented sense of where & how to 
assign respect and an effortless ability to not be bothered by anything 
anyone says to me that hasn't earned ridiculously high degrees of respect 
from me the hard way and over a long time. Everyone else can go hang and I 
consider myself more qualified than them to judge me. Add to this robot like 
security in my own sense of self, an absolute passion for a good debate. The 
hotter the better. When the dialog gets to where other people think we are 
fighting rather than debating, I am only just starting to warm to the topic 
and just barely starting to allow myself to actually get interested.

Unavoidably, it's a fact, a significant, rather THE significant fraction of 
people do NOT find pitting their towering alpha-male-geek strength of 
personality against others and battling it out in email lists and running a 
friggn gauntlet every time they DARE to open their mouths. Every time 
someone sees a question, or sees and answer they have an interesting twist 
on, and elects not to bring the wrath of the mail list sharks upon 
themselves, and as a result I never get to see their odd take on the 
problem, I LOSE, and I blame anyone who is uncivil without justification for 
it. That's why this is my business.

Yes, obviously you unfortunately got some backlash from the reaction John 
has generated in me by grazing a button that was made exceptionally sore and 
kept that way by his lack of reaction since then. I must assume he feels he 
is as pure as the driven snow and beyond comments from mortals. This sort of 
indirect consequences and chain/ripple reactions are what I meant by "sand 
vs oil in the overall social machine". It's a 3rd grade lesson but I guess 
it's just been too long since 3rd grade for him.

Brian K. White  --  brian at aljex.com  --  http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
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