OT: SLR 5 Tape drive vs DAT

[Bill Vermillion]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 12:08  D . Thomas Podnar said 'Who you talkin' to? 
You talkin' to D . Thomas Podnar?  I didn't do nuttin'.  I said:

> On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 02:42:19PM -0500, Bill Vermillion wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 09 14:22  Jay R. Ashworth said 'Who you talkin' to? You talkin'
> > to Jay R. Ashworth?  I didn't do nuttin'.  I said: 
> > 
> > > On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 10:59:39AM -0500, Fairlight wrote:
> > >
> > > > Simon--er, no...it was J. Ryan Kelley--said:
> > > >
> > > > > The Main advantage i can think of is that tape drives are
> > > > > reuseable, so if you need to backup your data on the same
> > > > > medium several times, Tape is still the better option.
> > > > > I would agree that DVD is a better option for long term
> > > > > permanent storage though
> > 
> > > > DVD-RW/+RW anyone?
> > 
> > > Actually, there *are* some good reasons.
> > 
> > > Tapes are much more rugged, from a handling standpoint, and the moreso
> > > the larger the tapewidth.
> > 
> > > I have a client who is having the annual TR-4 failure. We
> > > contemplated switching them to DVD-RW, but the box in question
> > > is one door away from a machine shop, and handwashing isn't
> > > their strong suit. The tapes have a much higher likelihood of
> > > not getting trashed.
> > 
> > Before I took over the *n*x side for a site they had been going
> > through the Travan routine.   
> > 
> > I put in a VXA-1 by Ecrix [now part of Quantum] and it just runs
> > and runs and runs.

> That's the second time you've said that. But Ecrix is now part of Exabyte.
> Quantum just bought Certance, which was Seagate RSS, which was Archive,
> which was...

I think my mind is going.  Sorry about that.  I need to check on my
refresh circuits.

But one point is that Ecrix is no longer a small company and that
made some people concerened.


> > The data storage surface is too exposed to damage.   That's  one
> > reason the DVD-RAM disks originally came in cartridgges just like
> > the original CD players from people like NEC.

> It still does come in a cartridge, although you CAN get non-cartridge
> drives and media.

I've seen moreof the non-cartridge ones lately, but thats not what
you really want for data storage.

> > DVD's are entertainment technology adapted to data storage - the
> > same way DAT started - but DAT disappeared and for data the DDS
> > came into play - and while they look similar they aren't.

> Actually, DVD-RAM started as a data storage technology, not a
> video storage technology. That is why it is still the best of
> the media types for backups. Media is slightly more expensive,
> but worth it.

Anyone who worries about cost of media versus the cost of lost data
should not be making the decisions about backups.

...

> My summary of this long thread would be, use the right media for
> the job, and always remember how much your data is worth.

I had one client years and years ago backing up to 8" media.
The woman who had the RS model 6000 in her office would stay on
Thursday nights to make backups for about 3 hours.

One weekend I drove there [ about 75 miles away ] to fix a problem,
and I needed one of the master SW disks.  The owner said they were
locked in the bank vault and he could not get them until Monday.

The $700=$1000 cost was what made him do that.  I pointed out
that if he had a problem/fire/etc the insurance would replace
the SW but he'd have to spend about $25K rekeying all the lost
data.  Only then did I get data disk sets stored off site.

> We still see systems (especially Point of Sale) where CD-RW is more
> than enough space for backups, especially with modern compression
> technologies.

> DVD is usually great for the under-10GB marketplace. (Maybe more with
> large filePro installations, since files compress so easily.)

I still have some concerns with DVD as to reliabilty/recovery.
Most of my experience with them is in the video mode.  It's usually
lost directory entries and then recovery can be painful depending
on what is wrong.  I turned a program I use for recovery loose
on one the other night and then went to bed - and had to spend a
bit of time recovering what was saved onto the HD.

TDK is supposed to be releasing new DVD's shorlty with a very
hard coating that say is scratch proof.  

But in any medium where the storage area is exposed there are
potential problems.  That's why tape is good, and why the REV
should be good.  And the DVD-RAM in cartridges is good.  You can
usually drop a backup with no harm done at all - but not true
with CD or DVD media.

> REV has a great price point for the under 32GB marketplace, and has
> a performance edge over most products in that category. It extends
> close to 100GB using software compression at the expense of some
> performance.

I've always had problems with the concept of SW compression on the
computer versus the compression inherent in modern backup devices.
It's just my personal bias.

> Fortunately, we all have far more flexibility, at far lower price
> points, than we did a few years ago.

That's so true.  $700 or so for 20MB QIC drives with cartridge
over $30 sound improbable compared to today's prices.

$6.00 / 88 gives almost 7 cents per kilobyte - and we thought
that was pretty good.

Bill
-- 
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com