OT: SLR 5 Tape drive vs DAT

[D . Thomas Podnar]

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 02:42:19PM -0500, Bill Vermillion wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 09 14:22  Jay R. Ashworth said 'Who you talkin' to? You talkin'
> to Jay R. Ashworth?  I didn't do nuttin'.  I said: 
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 10:59:39AM -0500, Fairlight wrote:
> >
> > > Simon--er, no...it was J. Ryan Kelley--said:
> > >
> > > > The Main advantage i can think of is that tape drives are
> > > > reuseable, so if you need to backup your data on the same
> > > > medium several times, Tape is still the better option.
> > > > I would agree that DVD is a better option for long term
> > > > permanent storage though
> 
> > > DVD-RW/+RW anyone?
> 
> > Actually, there *are* some good reasons.
> 
> > Tapes are much more rugged, from a handling standpoint, and the moreso
> > the larger the tapewidth.
> 
> > I have a client who is having the annual TR-4 failure. We
> > contemplated switching them to DVD-RW, but the box in question
> > is one door away from a machine shop, and handwashing isn't
> > their strong suit. The tapes have a much higher likelihood of
> > not getting trashed.
> 
> Before I took over the *n*x side for a site they had been going
> through the Travan routine.   
> 
> I put in a VXA-1 by Ecrix [now part of Quantum] and it just runs
> and runs and runs.

That's the second time you've said that. But Ecrix is now part of Exabyte.
Quantum just bought Certance, which was Seagate RSS, which was Archive,
which was...

> It's running on an IDE interface in Linux with
> scsi-emulation.  The VXA-1 is actaully a SCSI device with an IDE
> interface.  SCSI price is the same.  List price is $699.  So far
> they are ahead of the game considering how often the TR-4 devices
> were being replaced.
> 
> 8mm tape form factor.  33GB native - and 66GB with hardware
> compression [ not the inflated compression specs you see
> in systems that use SW compression ]
> 
> It averages about 100MB/min backup.  And that's the cheapest and
> slowest of their line.   It gave Quantum a lower priced entry
> point.
> 
> > Secondly, LTO is up to 500GB in a DLT shell.  How many DVDs is that?
> 
> I'd guess about 125 :-)
> 
> And to one of the other posters who guessed that DVD is better
> for long term storage - since we've only had DVD writeables for
> about 5 years and I've pulled data off of 15 year old tapes all
> guesses on DVD longevity are just that - guesses.
> 
> And one drop of a DVD can put a minisucle dent in the surface from
> which you can not recover the data.  
> 
> TDK is comeing out with their new scratch-proof coating for DVDs -
> but I haven't seen that on the market.
> 
> The data storage surface is too exposed to damage.   That's  one
> reason the DVD-RAM disks originally came in cartridgges just like
> the original CD players from people like NEC.

It still does come in a cartridge, although you CAN get non-cartridge
drives and media.
> 
> Data storage requires more thoughtful storage consideration than
> the movies you buy or rent.

Agreed.

> And some DVDs are barely worth watching the first time let alone
> 15 years from now.
> 
> DVD's are entertainment technology adapted to data storage - the
> same way DAT started - but DAT disappeared and for data the DDS
> came into play - and while they look similar they aren't.

Actually, DVD-RAM started as a data storage technology, not a
video storage technology. That is why it is still the best of the media
types for backups. Media is slightly more expensive, but worth it.

> DAT devices were designed to be played from end to end - just like
> an LP or CD.  DDS were designed for the stop/rewind/start mode
> in data environments so the cartridges have a much better design
> even though they look the same to the naked eye. [Can I say naked
> here or will the FCC come after me?]
> 
> Bill
> 
> -- 
> Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
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> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list


My summary of this long thread would be, use the right media for the job,
and always remember how much your data is worth.

We still see systems (especially Point of Sale) where CD-RW is more
than enough space for backups, especially with modern compression
technologies.

DVD is usually great for the under-10GB marketplace. (Maybe more with
large filePro installations, since files compress so easily.)

REV has a great price point for the under 32GB marketplace, and has
a performance edge over most products in that category. It extends
close to 100GB using software compression at the expense of some
performance.

DDS (DAT), VXA and AIT technologies support the mid-to-high range
very well. The new Sony AIT Turbo series, for example, brings high
performance with drive and media costs closer to the DDS price range.

Ultrium (LTO) is great for the high and, and has prices to match.
The latest (Ultrium-3) has a 400GB native capacity, with hardware
compression roughly double.

DLT is still popular and has a pretty big breadth, but with the
only manufacturer (Quantum) having recently purchased both DDS
and Ultrium/LTO technology, the writing may be on the wall.

We are seeing more and more situations when there is more than one
server where the servers are going legacy-free, that is, all the
servers backup to the NAS, providing multiple generations of
near-line backups and easy disaster recovery, while the NAS gets
backed up to the big tape drive for off-site storage.


Fortunately, we all have far more flexibility, at far lower price
points, than we did a few years ago.
---
Tom
---
 D. Thomas Podnar
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