A REAL Filepro manual or just charge my ass and help me out with this memo exporting please

Fairlight fairlite at fairlite.com
Fri Apr 9 19:06:56 PDT 2021 

Someone's four years behind on their email.  :)

m->


On Fri, Apr 09, 2021 at 02:41:47PM -0400, Nancy Palmquist via Filepro-list thus spoke:
> Mark,
> 
> I have long complained about the filePro chosen licensing scheme, especially
> for windows which is a windows count and not a butt/CPU count.
> Seems to me they should license CPU's not windows but that argument is long
> lost.
> 
> I have also tried to get a license that would not need to download a file. 
> This makes it very difficult to distribute a licensed version as a runtime
> for a vertical package.
> 
> 
> But they do not see filepro as an engine to use to develop vertical packages
> for distribution, they see filePro as a custom development package.
> You know I think filePro is a great tool and I will continue to use it but I
> have had two long standing complaints.
> 1) the licensing model
> 2) the install procedures - I have yet to install filepro right the first
> time - even on my own machines.  I seem to be deficient in this one area and
> have never been able to overcome it.
> 
> But this is just my two cents.
> 
> Have a great weekend all.
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Nancy
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/16/2017 2:17 PM, Fairlight via Filepro-list wrote:
> > Richard,
> > 
> > Most of the software today come with licensing schemes which do one of the
> > following:
> > 
> > 1) Activate with a simple code, and don't care about hardware changes.
> > 
> > 2) Activate with a simple code, care about hardware changes, and give you a
> > grace period to reactivate.  (Windows follows this, I believe.)
> > 
> > 3) Activate with a simple code, care about hardware changes, and give you
> > -no- grace period.  (Office 2010 definitely falls into this category, as to
> > PopCap Games' games.)
> > 
> > 4) Activate with a dongle-based license, against an eLicenser, iLok, or
> > similar USB dongle or HDD-based key store.  The dongle-based solutions
> > allow you to switch which computer you're using, irrespective of hardware
> > configuration; if you have a dongle with a valid license, you're golden.
> > 
> > Of the software which cares about hardware changes, -most- only track
> > cumulative changes before bitching.  Windows doesn't care until you replace
> > 2-3 components at once, typically.
> > 
> > Then there's filePro.  It cares if you change the two pieces of hardware
> > -most- likely to change, which are your HDD and your NIC.  Hell, I
> > preemptively upgrade hard drives before they start dropping sectors, both
> > to make sure I don't have data loss issues, and to upgrade capacity.  I
> > upgraded three hard drives last year, from 2TB to 6TB each, plus my SSD
> > from 512MB to 1TB.  There were about five pieces of software which even
> > cared, and the only one which was problematic was Office 2010, which
> > required a 3hr-long argument with Microsoft before they finally relented
> > and gave me a new license.  [This is one reason I'm so reticent to move
> > from Win7 to Win10, as it's documented that it'll do it again.]  The only
> > reason it tripped some software was because I replaced so four pieces at
> > once.  Aside from Office, I was pain-free within an hour, and you have no
> > idea how much software I have installed, from games, to VSTs, to
> > productivity software.
> > 
> > As far as NICs, I've seen too many blown NICs at client sites to want to
> > rely on that.  That's insane.
> > 
> > Not only that, you're at the mercy of the company to get the new code.
> > It's not like they have a simple and automated challenge/response client
> > built into anything, as iZotope does.  Oh, and when you need to do an
> > emergency reinstall because your box blew out at 1am on a weekend?  No,
> > thank you very much.
> > 
> > This draconian kind of scheme does not belong in what would purport to be
> > enterprise-grade software.  Even AutoCAD, dicks though they are, were at
> > least dongle-based.
> > 
> > ***NO*** software company should have the right to dictate that your
> > legitimately licensed software immediately stops working properly the
> > second you dare exercise -your right- to freely upgrade your hardware, for
> > whatever reason you choose to upgrade.  Compounding the issue is the
> > general consensus from people I speak with who say that fP-Tech is
> > notoriously hard to reach in a timely fashion.
> > 
> > It's a matter of principle.  When allegedly business-class software has
> > worse user protection than artistic/creativity-based software like music
> > VSTs, there's an issue.
> > 
> > I'll say this:  As a developer myself, I accept piracy as a cost of doing
> > business.  That is the price of playing in the software sandbox, full stop.
> > Piracy is going nowhere, ever.  My products are not inexpensive (OneGate is
> > $1k, as are a few others).  If someone needs to steal from me that badly,
> > they need the money more than I do, apparently.  I could use the money, but
> > so be it.  (God help them if I catch them, but I'm not going to penalise
> > people with a horrible UX or borderline spyware up-front.  No.)
> > 
> > I would rather sink R&D time/money into features which cause users to
> > -want- to purchase my quality software, rather than punish paying customers
> > with draconian DRM.  If you're making software which is good enough that
> > people -want- to pay you for quality goods, and you can survive in a
> > meritocracy, then you know you're doing it correctly.  If you have to force
> > them to do it, it's time to re-evaluate your offerings.
> > 
> > I would rather every software company followed suit, and did business
> > decently, rather than screwing their paying customers.  A lot of people are
> > dropping companies who play ball like this, because the -only- thing a lock
> > does is keep an honest man out.  People have also been known to pay for
> > licenses of software, then pirate a copy with the DRM bypassed, strictly
> > for the better UX.  It is not an uncommon practise.
> > 
> > mark->
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 01:35:39PM -0400, Richard Kreiss thus spoke:
> > > Top Post:
> > > 
> > > I don't know why everyone is bitching.  Most of the software one purchases
> > > today comes with some sort of licensing scheme.  All  of the paid Anti-virus
> > > programs and the various tool programs come with licensing and will not
> > > function if the registration code or license code is not entered.
> > > 
> > > My Microsoft Action Pack comes with licensing and the user count available
> > > with that software.  If it comes with a single user count, it only allows
> > > for the software to be installed and registered on one computer.  If you try
> > > to install it a second time, you will get an error message.
> > > 
> > > Keep in mind that the *nix version of filePro always had user restrictions,
> > > the Windows version on the other hand did not.  One could purchase a 5 user
> > > network version and have 250 users access it.  Or an employer (direct
> > > purchase) could purchase a 20 user license and not have any issues as the
> > > business grew and added more users without paying for additional licenses.
> > > 
> > > Yes, I wish there was an easier way to implement filePro's license manager.
> > > However, I and my clients have not had issues with it.  The only issue is
> > > when a session does not end properly and the license manager needs to be
> > > stopped and restarted to release that session.  This happens mostly with
> > > remote sessions.
> > > 
> > > Also, at least with the Windows version, a batch file for adding the license
> > > is supplied in case there is a problem installing the service at
> > > installation time.  With a minor modification this batch file can also stop
> > > and the restart the license service.  This could also most likely be
> > > re-written using Windows PowerShell scripting.
> > > 
> > > If you are referring to the complaint about sessions vs. seats, that is
> > > something else.  Intuits' QuickBooks also has a per session license.
> > > 
> > > I have a client who used the Xenix version of filePro many years ago and was
> > > familiar with that licensing.  When we moved to the Windows licensing, he
> > > was not happy with the per session licensing as a number of his employees
> > > opened multiple windows, including himself.  The trade-off was he did not
> > > have to consider system command outputs as part of his user count.   After
> > > analyzing his usage, he only had to purchase an extra 5 user runtime to
> > > handle the additional sessions.
> > > 
> > > Although I am one person programming, I can have open 4 to 5 sessions on my
> > > computer or 2 sessions on my laptop(tablet).  I therefore have a 5 user
> > > license for my office and a 2 user license for my tablet.
> > > 
> > > What I find interesting is that those who have not upgraded are missing out
> > > on all of the new features and functions that have been added since the
> > > older version you are running.  fP Tech has made upgrading rather cost
> > > effective with their subscription plan.  Keep in mind that they need to be
> > > selling(have cash flow) to stay in business and their primary product has to
> > > have new features and functions to keep up with client needs.
> > > 
> > > Some of these features many would consider minor such as the ability to have
> > > a scrolling screen field or the ability to apply a selection set to an
> > > automatic index( making an auto index into an automatic demand index).  Some
> > > major changes are the ability to encrypt a field and now a complete file.
> > > Visually the new selectbox() function which is similar to a listbox() except
> > > one can prompt the user to type in characters to get to the item wanted.
> > > Also added, although not as easy as PrintWizard, is the ability to output
> > > PDF files.  This breaks the dependency on PCL 3 and 5 compatible printers.
> > > 
> > > For use developers, this can be an added income source in converting
> > > existing outputs to PDF.  I already did this for one client from and @key
> > > which listed 3 letters which one could be selected.  It then asked printed
> > > or PDF.  The print option the allowed for the selection of a printer.
> > > 
> > > I had wanted to allow the user to select one of two directories(folders) to
> > > send the PDF but that was nixed.  It is dent to the user's "My Documents"
> > > folder on their local machine.
> > > 
> > > Mark, You develop tools to be used to handle issues that the primary program
> > > cannot handle or cannot or does not handle well.  You also have a licensing
> > > mechanism to insure that your software is not pirated.
> > > 
> > > Sans the license manager, isn't there new functionality that can be added to
> > > an existing application that will entice your clients( developer or in-house
> > > programmer) to want to upgrade?  They do offer a free 30 day license to test
> > > the new version.  It is worth a look and the time spent.
> > > 
> > > I have been developing with filePro since it was owned by Small Computer
> > > Company at 230 W 41st street.  I mention this as my offices were at 140 W
> > > 40th.  I started with Tandy's proFile and moved to FilePro 16 (Xenix) 1983.
> > > I have been doing this for a lot of year now and am still learning.  I have
> > > received much help for others on the list when I have had problems.
> > > However, there is nothing like being able to "play" with new functionality
> > > to see what it can or can't do.  One of the wish-list items was the ability
> > > to size a browse window to fit the number of records selected,  This was
> > > especially true when only 2 or four records were selected  when programmed
> > > for 12.  I took up this challenge one day and found a way to accomplish
> > > this.  I do use that programming when appropriate.  Ken Brody demonstrated a
> > > way to make a memo window dynamic at a filePro conference.
> > > 
> > > Yes, filePro has shortcomings but how many programs can run software
> > > developed on their early iterations?  I can run programs I wrote in versions
> > > 3,4, 4.1,4.5,4.8,5.0, etc.  that goes back to programs I wrote in the late
> > > 80's and 90's.  I have clients who are still running by textile brokerage
> > > program in versions earlier then 5.0 and only call when they need a new
> > > printer or need to move the program to a new computer.  The just don't have
> > > problems.  If they do, it is usually just a matter of rebuilding the
> > > automatic indexes.
> > > 
> > > Many years ago I had my primary application lifted by an employee who left a
> > > client.
> > > 
> > > After that, I had to write programming that in effect locked that
> > > application to my client's equipment.  The programming is similar for fP
> > > Tech's licensing but without the user count.  I also added programming to
> > > insure that I received any payments where a client owed me monthly.  No
> > > payment, They could see and print out reports on what was already there but
> > > could not add any new records.
> > > 
> > > The interesting thing about this was the fellow who stole my software had
> > > hired a bookkeeper who had worked for another client and when they finally
> > > had an issue called me do come in a fix it.  That was some 6 years after
> > > pirating my program.  I politely explained to the bookkeeper that I wouldn't
> > > be available except if they paid the current price of the software plus a
> > > rental fee for 6 years of prior use by certified check.  An appointment
> > > would be made after the check cleared my bank.  They of course never paid
> > > and the program became useless to them.  By the way, this company is no
> > > longer in business.
> > > 
> > > So, the question is, how much pirating of filePro has been reduced and how
> > > much income have they gotten from this licensing model?  Everyone, keep in
> > > mind the original owner's Small Computer Co. sued there largest outside
> > > developer for thousands of dollars in lost revenue by that developer giving
> > > away versions of filePro.  I don't remember the name of the company but I
> > > think it was in Pennsylvania. Small Computer won that case.
> > > 
> > > Richard Kreiss
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Filepro-list [mailto:filepro-list-
> > > > bounces+rkreiss=verizon.net at lists.celestial.com] On Behalf Of Fairlight
> > > via
> > > > Filepro-list
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:01 AM
> > > > To: filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > Subject: Re: A REAL Filepro manual or just charge my ass and help me out
> > > with
> > > > this memo exporting please
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 12:53:59PM +0000, Henry Melancon via Filepro-list
> > > > thus spoke:
> > > > > Do they not realize they are losing money because of the licensing????
> > > > Well, I see two possible options:
> > > > 
> > > > 1) They've only heard it from third party consultants/programmers rather
> > > than
> > > > direct customers (although I know Brian White has said it, and is an
> > > employee of
> > > > a direct customer), or
> > > > 
> > > > 2) They've heard it from customers, and simply don't care.  That's an
> > > approach
> > > > big companies like Adobe can afford to take, as people are always going to
> > > want
> > > > Adobe products.  I wasn't under the impression that fP-Tech was in that
> > > league.
> > > > mark->
> > > > --
> > > > Audio panton, cogito singularis.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Filepro-list mailing list
> > > > Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe/Subscription Changes
> > > > http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
> > > 
> 
> -- 
> Nancy Palmquist         MOS & filePro Training Available
> Virtual Software Systems    Web Based Training and Consulting
> PHONE: (412) 835-9417           Web site:  http://www.vss3.com
> 
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-- 
Audio panton, cogito singularis.

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