Edge on Linux - Issue.

[John Esak]

I have only two tiny comments on your complaint about the FULL backup from
Microlite.  My experience with their products is 100% satisfaction at every
point and turn, the product, the service, the support. It all is as good as
it gets anywhere. I only wish every company I deal with in all industries
everywhere were 1/2 the company they are on all the issues we all usually
care about.  I'm even pretty sure they would/will actually agree with your
"warning" even though I'll bet they take umbrage at the presentation of it.
That's between you and they.  (is that good grammar?)  I don't think they
will or should accept blame in this instance.

Even so, I just wanted to chime in that I am SO ignorant of Linux that I
would have thought the /media folder should stand to mean what it sounds
like it means... A place to hang various hard drives, thumb drives, tape
drives, floppy disks, etc.  So, I, too, would have probably opted to exclude
it unless the administrator (you, in this unfortunate incident you must be
relating) *specified* it to be included in a FULL backup. Why? Because this
particular folder sounds like a place to hang "temporary" mount points.  

Now, to give you one (tiny as I say) crumb... 

On my handheld PDA which I have extolled the virtues of on this list from
time to time... It relies on the /media directory in the way you might
think.. But the way they use it, I would certainly want it backed up.  They
have a /media/hdd folder on which the 60Gb hard drive inside the unit is
mounted.  So, it comes completely empty... All the stuff for the O/S and
programs are on a non-volatile chip and some flash memory that it passes
things to.  But, though it comes empty, it is the place where I put all of
*my* actual data.  It currently holds many gigabytes of music, word
processing documents, audible books, .rss feeds, calendar, journal, etc.,
etc., etc.  So, if I were using a backup to save this stuff other than the
one provided by the unit designers, I would want it to save this /media
folder.

But, on the third hand, would this still not be actually a non-ordinary use
of the /media folder?

In summary, because I hope this doesn't become an actual thread.... But just
a warning/notice people read and tuck way if they need it... and because I
won't add to it again... I do think your warning is certainly useful and
might help someone else using the EDGE product on Linux, but I'm not sure
blaming Microlite in any way is warranted. I know that I wouldn't want the
/mnt folder of an old Unix system in my FULL backup by default.  Yes, if I
put it there, but not by default.

Okay, I'm done.

John Esak



> -----Original Message-----
> From: filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.com 
> [mailto:filepro-list-bounces+john=valar.com at lists.celestial.co
m] On Behalf Of Fairlight
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:39 PM
> To: filePro Mailing List
> Subject: OT: Edge on Linux - Issue.
> 
> A lot of people here rely on Backup Edge to perform their backups and
> restores--enough so that I feel a warning is not out of line for Linux
> users.
> 
> By default, Edge ships/populates /etc/edge.exclude.  This 
> file was found by
> me with the assistance of Microlite tech support when they 
> had me enable
> advanced mode and edit the domain.  The config screen lists 
> the file as
> optional, but it's there after a virgin installation without 
> me ever having
> populated it.
> 
> Turns out, on the -original- system to which I'm trying to 
> restore, this
> would also have been the case.  In that file, /proc and /sys 
> are sensibly
> excluded (there are files there that "never end", such as 
> /proc/kcore).
> 
> What is -NOT- sensible is the default exclusion of the /media 
> tree.  I can
> see all sorts of rationales for why one might think to exclude /media,
> seeing as what it's typically used for are mount points for 
> removable media
> like floppies, CDROM, DVD, etc.  
> 
> In this case, however, someone (not me...far prior to my 
> involvement by
> over a year) decided that /media would be a good place to put 
> permanent
> data directories, which were then shared out to workstation computers.
> 
> Prior to the system being rebuilt, it was verified that backups were
> successful and verified, and rather than -just- rely on 
> those, I also did
> an "Unscheduled Full Backup" from the Backup menu.  This 
> apparently used
> the default exclusion list.  The previous admin had never 
> been arsed to
> actually check his backups and make sure the files were 
> getting backed up.
> 
> Upshoot?  A -lot- of data was lost, that never should have been.
> 
> WHEN I "CLICK" something that says "Unscheduled FULL Backup", 
> I am -not-
> expecting, "Unscheduled Full Backup Except What We Think Is Best",
> "Unexpected KindaSortaMostlyFull Backup", or even 
> "Unscheduled Cross Your
> Fingers and Pray Microlite Knows Best".  I'm expecting a FULL 
> backup.  I
> checked, and there's a "[Modify Excludes]".  Only /proc is 
> listed.  Down at
> the bottom, there's a tiny checkbox for "Use 
> /etc/edge.exclude".  Thing is,
> you have to drill down to actually see that.  I'm also not expecting
> "Unscheduled Full Backup Unless You Didn't Drill Down A 
> Screen and Modify
> the Default Excludes that Include Something That Shouldn't Be There".
> 
> I'm expecting FULL.
> 
> I lay the failure in long-term verification at the feet of 
> the admin that
> not only knew the files were stored in /media, but who put 
> them there to
> begin with.  I'm laying the failure of my "Full" backup, 
> however, at the
> feet of Microlite, who decided that there should be excludes 
> of anything
> but /proc and /sys in a default scenario.  Well, partial 
> blame goes to the
> people that never informed me, "Hey, stuff is stored under 
> /media."  In
> reality, I can't blame them much, since 1) the end-users 
> didn't know where
> the data was kept, and 2) the admin apparently "thought" it 
> was getting
> backed up and wouldn't have thought to tell me anyway, if he 
> couldn't be
> arsed to check the backup listings for a year and a half.  
> Mostly I blame a
> really crappy default by Microlite.
> 
> I don't use Edge often.  I've only ever really had to restore from it
> before recently.  But damn, for something that's supposed to be
> user-friendly, they really screwed the pooch on the default 
> behaviour of
> "Unscheduled Full Backup", so that someone wholly unfamiliar 
> with their
> software doesn't actually -get- a FULL backup by default.  
> Who the hell
> expects anything but /proc and /sys to be in the default?
> 
> I've found a number of issues with Edge that I take personal 
> issue with,
> but they're forgivable.  This one, however, is not.
> 
> Lest anyone else be bitten by the same issue (especially going into a
> situation on a system with next to no intel from anyone), I'm 
> putting this
> out there as a warning to the unsuspecting.
> 
> mark->
> -- 
> Fairlight->   ||| "My idea of rebooting is kicking   | 
> Fairlight Consulting
>   __/\__      ||| someone in the ass twice." --      |
>  <__<>__>     ||| Anonymous Mousepad                 | 
> http://www.fairlite.com
>     \/        |||                                    | 
> info at fairlite.com
> _______________________________________________
> Filepro-list mailing list
> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>