PHP an idiot's tool (was OT: Web page source code )

[Jose Lerebours]

>From little-dot-ville, Mark exploded and revealed:

>No fear here...obviously I can evaluate the facts quite thoroughly myself.
>Your implications seemed like a FUD campaign against CGI, however.

Don't know how you read that ... but it happens!

>> I love it when people mock PHP. PHP itself is not any worst than Perl,
>> Python, ASP, JSP, or any CGI tool available out there. I really believe
>> that how the applications are written is what defines their structure
>> integrity or lack there of.
>
>Actually, PHP's very model makes it worse-off than perl. The tighter
>binding to the web server -by nature- gives it more exposure in terms of
>risk and repercussions. Perl doesn't have that working against it unless
>you use mod_perl, which I refuse to do.
>

So I guess you have figured out how to keep your perl apps secured but
this
is not possible in PHP at all - Interesting

>As for the structure and integrity of software...
>
>There's something inherently wrong with an architecture that puts not only
>the architecture itself but every application based upon it at the top of
>the security digests -every single week-. Even Microsoft can't manage
>that!
>
>Any design that allows (and apparently encourages) the users to do things
>that are security violations on the scale PHP does is fundamentally flawed,
>IMNSHO.
>

I do not read these as you do, but do not think you present a valid
point to
rank PHP as a worthless development tool.  I am sure that the flaws,
however
many, are related to specific extensions which you can include or
exclude just
as you do with mod_perl.

>
>PHP is like AOL: So easy to use, any idiot can--and too many do. The fact
>that the community isn't even remotely as self-policing as the perl
>community (which has really stringent standards, despite the freeform
>nature Perl is capable of using) doesn't help matters.
>

I happen to be one of those idiots, except that I never used AOL.  It
feels
that you are very biased and one cannot argue with a person who has
locked
himself in such a way.

One could argue that filePro is easier than PHP - So are there too many 
idiots in the filePro community?

I do not think that the tool defines the quality of the end-product;
this
is the responsibility of the developer behind it.  If you are a weak
developer,
your applications will be weak or at least show your weaknesses.  Of
course,
an even weaker developer will drawn under the tools inherent weaknesses.

Take for example filePro itself, with all its weaknesses, lots of solid 
applications have been written.  In the same token, there is a flood of
poorly
written applications.  This is not the fault of filePro itself, but the 
developers.


>> I am very comfortable with PHP. In all the years I've been writing code,
>> if I dropped a language or tool just because I heard it was problematic,
>> I would have never worked in this industry. Imagine what would have even
>> happen with filePro if we ever pay any attention to that kind of talk ...
>
>First we'd have to get outside the circle of about 300 people that actually
>talk about filePro at any given time within this community. Something
>needs exposure to be able to hear bad (or good) things about it in the
>first place. In that regard, fP is almost a no-op. I ran into the first
>new non-list-related person in ten years that actually not only knows what
>it is, but has it running on several servers, the other week. He's one of
>the founding members of my Call of Duty 4 clan. When you can go a decade
>and not find someone new that isn't part of this tiny community who doesn't
>give you a (virtual or real) blank stare when you mention the name, it's a
>problem for the product.
>

You are ahead of me here, I have not meat a "new" filePro user in well
over
a decade.  I have never meat any one outside this list ... Every one I
have
ever spoken, work with or exchange anything filePro related was through 
this list or a member of this list.

>> Any way, we are all entitled to our opinion and I humbly respect yours.
>
>I respect yours. I disagree with it, but you're entitled to hold and
>defend it. :)
>

Not defending, simply find it interesting to hear other put down any
development tool and rank it as you have PHP.  At my age, I do not have
the
time nor the inclination to read every article printed, care for every
criticism, and bother with anything that does not have a direct impact
in my
personal life or those I care for.

Like filePro, PHP has given me all that I need to develop the
applications
that have been given for me to write: Dynamic Charting Application,
Warehouse
and Inventory Management, Online Document Management, Exam & Grading
System,
Trucking System, etc.  To mention a few over the past year.  I am in the

process of converting my filePro Accounting Application into a PHP based
application.  

Like you said, it is so easy, any idiot can ... and we should.  I am
sure that 
if Perl were as popular and widely used as PHP, it would have its fare
share of
problems.  When Perl was at it peak in popularity, I am sure you can go
back 
and find other posting comments such as your about PHP.  

Regards,


--
Jose Lerebours
http://www.fpgroups.com
954-559-7186
filePro + PHP Solution Developer