Antiquated Software
Anthony Terrible
tony at vegena.net
Mon Jan 16 13:35:34 PST 2006
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Malen" <dmalen at malen.com>
To: "Anthony Terrible" <tony at vegena.net>
Cc: "File Pro List" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Antiquated Software
> You seem to be very emotional about down grading filePro. In any event,
Not emotional just tired of jumping through hoops to get things done when
better products and tools are available. But then no more than you about
keeping something that is woefully outdated.
>
> 1. Yes we can go into another file by pressing one button.
Yes we can do that too but when you show another file from being
within one you have to use dummies and most of the time some if not all of
the information needed is not availible because you can only show 1 screen
of the other file which may need 3 to show everything. You can use system
calls to actually go to the other file so you can see all of the information
and we have done that also but the problem with that is your users will get
hung up in a loop and bring the whole system to it's knees.
>
> 2. Yes, the managers can create a report on the fly - that is the beauty
> of filePro.
Hmmm, somehow I doubt this unless they are programmers and you have
development licensees for them and running from a command line.
>
> 3. Yes they can run several reports at the same time.
Same as above.
>
> 4. Yes, they can review historical info going back 10 years - easy stuff
> for filepro.
Can they sort it or group it? Don't think so. Oh yea, if they run a
report which is at best, slow.
>
> Without getting into how you set your screens up and the logic you use,
> filepro does all those things and doesn't take up much room on my hard
> drive.
Actually, I have converted all of my Filepro files to another modern data
base and they are smalleer then Filepro's
There are many other things about Filepro that I haven't mentioned, like if
you use a dummy on a report that happens to be in the automatic table it
doesn't work as planed even if you explicitly don't use the automatic table
running the report.
Basicly you are free to have your own opinions and to use what ever program
or programs you wish. I am glad you have such good luck with Filepro and
hope it serves you well in the future. I personally beleive that Filepro's
time has ended based on the new technology and on what your customers and
venders are doing. But in the end, it's your call. But as many many
companies found out standing in the way of progress usually gets you run
over. There is just much more out there then Filepro has to offer. You have
a different opinion. Who knows, maybe the whole world is wrong and will
regress back to Filepro in the coming years.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony Terrible" <tony at vegena.net>
> To: "Dennis Malen" <dmalen at malen.com>
> Cc: "File Pro List" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Antiquated Software
>
>
>> While I respect everyone's opinion, I believe you are only fooling
>> yourself. Our company may be a little different than yours and our phone
>> personal need to access several different files at the same time. The
>> only way to do this with Filepro is to get out of where your at and go
>> into the other file. There are many ways to do this but none of them are
>> easy. And you only confirmed what I stated, you use several different
>> programs to accomplish various tasks. Wouldn't it be nice not to have to
>> do that? Is it as easy as a right click to email photo's to a customer?
>> Can your managers make a report on the fly. You stated that you can run
>> several reports simultaneously but can anyone else? Can you go to a
>> screen of customer purchases and see all of their purchase's for the last
>> 10 years and sort them by any field you want without running a report?
>> Can you look at sales of a particular product over the last year and
>> group them by state or zip code without running a report? I didn't think
>> so. Oh and do it just as fast as an index selection? And if one of your
>> managers wanted a report like that how long would it take you to prepare
>> it? Because in Filepro he or she can not do it themselves. We also have
>> the largest banks come in and audit us but they have no idea if the data
>> is skewed or not. They're just looking at numbers and as long as they
>> match they're OK. We also hire young people and our experience is quite
>> different. They have trouble finding anything let alone entering it.
>> People that have been here for years have viewed and worked my system
>> (same data truly Windows based) and are amazed how easy and simple it is
>> compared to the Filepro system they have been using for years. (not fully
>> completed or implemented yet) And wouldn't it be nice to have IF, THEN,
>> ELSE, ELSEIF or how about a SELECT CASE or maybe a DO LOOP, Dynamic
>> Arrays, the list goes on. You can continue to live in the past and be
>> destined to be left out of the future. Technology continues to move
>> forward and while all of it is not good, needed, or useful for everyone,
>> Filepro is just too far behind. One of the best measures for success is
>> to be imitated. I don't see anyone out there imitating Filepro. When a
>> better product comes along people will find it, seek it out. Linux is a
>> perfect example of that. I don't see people seeking out Filepro.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dennis Malen" <dmalen at malen.com>
>> To: "Anthony Terrible" <tony at vegena.net>; "File Pro List"
>> <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>; "Tips" <tips at stanlyn.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: Antiquated Software
>>
>>
>>> I'm been using filePro since the late 1970's. If it wasn't for Nancy I
>>> would not have stayed with it in those early years.
>>>
>>> We hire young people who came from other firms using windows. When they
>>> come to us, the training is much easier and we always get comments on
>>> how simple it is to use. Furthermore, the largest bank's in the country
>>> come on site to audit us. They also reconfirm the ease of use. They come
>>> from banks that would never use filePro because it is virtually unknown.
>>> A major bank can not take the risk to invest in an unknown product (but
>>> that's a different problem).
>>>
>>> I have been able to do most of the things that the list complains about.
>>> I do not use memos but use a 50 character line to enter comments. This
>>> works well and I can scroll through hundreds if not thousands of
>>> comments. I am also able to pass these comments to the outside world.
>>>
>>> I interact with the outside work by sending and receiving data with no
>>> problem, which involves a little filePro programming. I am able to
>>> access off the shelf software for imaging etc. which interacts
>>> seamlessly with filePro. I can also use any type of windows printer on
>>> my system. That only involves the tweaking of UNIX (AIX in my case). I
>>> can run many different reports at the same time.
>>>
>>> Besides what Ken does, we need programmers like John and his pals to
>>> tweak additional modules to do other things that the list wants. He
>>> started that with the PIG.
>>>
>>> There are also outside vendors such as Sound Ideas. They have some great
>>> utilities that work very well with filePro. Dave, the owner, was a
>>> filePro user. Also many of the members of the list also sell products
>>> that interact seamlessly with filePro. It is a matter of organizing the
>>> talent we have and using it. For example, if we need a particular add on
>>> to filePro which filePro does not have the resources to accomplish we
>>> should find out how many of us would want it. We could put money in a
>>> kitty and designate someone from the list with the talent to accomplish
>>> it to do it. They would estimate what the development costs would be.
>>> They would own the rights to the software. We would agree as to what
>>> they would sell it to us for after it was completed. There is so much
>>> talent here it just needs proper management.
>>>
>>> Absolutely, filepro has its place in my business coupled with other
>>> programs we need. The only point that was mentioned that has validity
>>> for me are size the screens.
>>>
>>> We need to think about ways things CAN be accomplished not why it can't.
>>> It is always easy to point fingers and degrade a well meaning attempt to
>>> solve problems.
>>>
>>> Viva La filePro.
>>>
>>> Dennis Malen
>>> 516.479.5912
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Anthony Terrible" <tony at vegena.net>
>>> To: "File Pro List" <filepro-list at lists.celestial.com>; "Tips"
>>> <tips at stanlyn.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 1:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Antiquated Software
>>>
>>>
>>>>I wasn't going to enter this flame although I have thought that Filepro
>>>>is antiquated for some time now. So I am going to address some of the
>>>>things that have been said and state my opinions. But before I begin let
>>>>me state that I have the utmost respect for all of you on this list and
>>>>believe that all of you are better programmers than I.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) Data entry in text mode (mouse less) is faster than a GUI or
>>>> using a mouse.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While I believe this to be true you can design Windows data entry forms
>>>> very easily that can be used without a mouse just like a text based
>>>> screen. The tab key works very well and the tab stop can be set any way
>>>> you want.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) Quoting Laura Brody, " I would bet cold-hard cash in a
>>>> non-trivial amount
>>>> that a top-level data-entry gal who has been at it since Eisenhower was
>>>> president would have a drop of productivity of around 50% or more if
>>>> she had to navigate through the exact same screen with a mouse on some
>>>> GUI database."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While this is true, wake up Laura. The people entering data now are in
>>>> their 20's and grew up with Windows and can navigate it quite easily,
>>>> as well as that person using a text based system. Read #1 above.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3) Quoting Bill Campbell, "I've never supported Windows, and
>>>> seriously think that anybody who entrusts corporate assets and data to
>>>> a Windows systems is guilty of malfeasance, and I refuse to be an
>>>> accomplice to that. Even if Windows were secure, and no data were ever
>>>> lost to software crashes or random reboots, the employee time lost due
>>>> to these crashes and reboots, when reliable alternatives are available,
>>>> isn't something that should be tolerated by anybody who is responsible
>>>> for an organization's bottom line."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been around Filepro for 20 years and the crashes from it, broken
>>>> freechain, index corruption etc. is to me, no worse then Windows.
>>>> However I do not promote a Windows based server. People today use PC's
>>>> which I would venture to say are 99% Windows based. These machines have
>>>> become very powerful over the years and people have become accustomed
>>>> to using programs like Excel and Word. Use the power of the PC. Write
>>>> you program to run on a Windows desktop but the database it's self can
>>>> reside on Unix or Linux and be safe and secure while using that
>>>> powerful PC. I believe anyone in this day and age who sells a client
>>>> Filepro is guilty of malfeasance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4) Quoting Ken Brody, "Umm... Printing of memos has been in since
>>>> 5.0.14. Did you miss that?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As John said, yes I guess we did. The memo field has never worked
>>>> properly and I, and I assume that others have just given up on it.
>>>> Compared to other databases the memo field is a bad joke, always has
>>>> been. I embraced it when it came out but years later after working with
>>>> it, well lets just say it's problems are too many to list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5) For years I have listened to the list ask when is there going
>>>> to be an ODBC driver for Filepro. The reason Filepro has never made an
>>>> ODBC driver for Filepro is that they are very much aware that by doing
>>>> this would be their death. If you could access the data stored in a
>>>> Filepro file from any programming language why would you use Filepro?
>>>> It would just be a matter of time before you totally get rid of
>>>> Filepro. The only thing holding most people to Filepro is all the data
>>>> they have in it's files that they can't get out without Filepro. Given
>>>> the out, most would take the option. Filepro's file system is slow and
>>>> clunky compared to modern data bases.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The world is changing. We need more data in many different formats then
>>>> we ever did. People expect it, they demand it. We need pictures, email,
>>>> internet access, the ability to open, view, modify and run reports on
>>>> several different files at the same time. This is just not possible
>>>> with Filepro. It is however easily done with current day data bases
>>>> running on PC's with Windows. What you have now with Filepro is a small
>>>> ugly screen, long learning curve for new employees, no real ability to
>>>> view or save photo's, little to no ability to create text documents,
>>>> lots of clumsy menus, the lack of ability to be in several files at the
>>>> same time, inability to access the internet, reports that look like
>>>> they came off a 1950's typewriter, the inability for management to
>>>> create their own reports, inability to sort or group data without
>>>> running a report, slow and clunky searches unless you use an index
>>>> selection, no integration with current technology. And programming?
>>>> There is more to life then IF-THEN. Using Filepro or thinking that it
>>>> has anything to offer is like the person who refuses to give up on that
>>>> 1960's automobile. Automobiles have come a long way in 20 years, they
>>>> are computer controlled in every aspect. They are faster then the cars
>>>> of the 60's and 70's, get better gas mileage, don't pollute, safer,
>>>> handle and drive better, last longer. So why would you want automobiles
>>>> to go back to the way they were? Filepro was good when it was made but
>>>> it's time is done, has been. Now is the time to figure out how to
>>>> migrate from Filepro. Total integration is the way. With Windows this
>>>> can be done. Your clients never have to learn anything else but your
>>>> program No more switching to a picture viewer, an email program, a
>>>> writing program, a web browser. All of this is done seamlessly and
>>>> easily. Menus, right clicks, real help files make it easy to use and
>>>> learn, tabs make it easy to enter data. Use the power of the PC. It
>>>> will make your company better, your people more productive.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Filepro-list mailing list
>>>> Filepro-list at lists.celestial.com
>>>> http://mailman.celestial.com/mailman/listinfo/filepro-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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