FW: filePro list

[CDAY]

John,

You know I do not hold a candle to you or Dave and most other filePro 
developers.  I know nothing about *nix and only as much as necessary 
about Windows.  Every now and then, there is a problem I need help 
with.  You and others on the list most always, and very kindly, seem to 
take care of me. I appreciate that very much. I would be frozen in time 
if that help was not forthcoming.

I agree with you and Dave about the nit-picking. A long time ago I put 
on my flack jacket (a turtle shell works too, but it allows withdrawal) 
and learned to use my delete key for messages sent by particular 
persons, knowing that 99.9% of the time that message would grow huge 
mushrooms if kept in the dark.

In my opinion, not personally knowing or having met people on the list 
causes some of the "my brain is better than yours" messages.  I also 
believe a couple of those people don't give a crap even when they do 
meet someone in person.  When the big Delete Key takes them, there are 
two things they will not take with them, their money and their superior 
attitude.  The money stays here and the attitude is gone, dead!    

Keep up your good work.

Charlie Day


John Esak wrote:

>Well, I guess I have to forward this along... since I've been forwarding
>some of the list traffic to Dave this past week... his response kind of
>in-toto to it all is below. I know many of you lurking and reading feel the
>very same way he does. Perhaps, his nearly perfect statement of the
>goings-on of this list is something you will take to heart... and if the
>voices of some of the "bullies" on this list (including mine as some may
>hear it) intimidate you... please don't let this continue. Ask questions,
>give opinions, don't feel like you are going to be jumped on by the few that
>always do the jumping on... there are many of us who just enjoy helping at
>any level, particularly the novice or even long-time user of filePro who may
>be very adept in one area and not know much about another. I think we have
>all calmed down a lot, but imagine if Dave, who has just heard a very few
>parts of one thread, still sees this place as he does... I am truly amazed
>(as always) that we manage to continue.  To his credit, Dave has provided
>some of the very best stuff for Unix and filePro users. In a subsequent
>message, I am going to put up a message about two or three of his products
>that we cold not get along without...  yes, yes, yes, all of you braniacs
>could SO easily write similar things with all the "free" utilities in the
>world, but none of you have ever put these brilliant
>I-can-do-that-easier-and-cheaper great substitutions of yours into viable,
>supported, commercial products.  I'm reminded of when Dr. Pulliam put up a
>note about how much Dave's DATAPIPE program has helped him... and the usual
>crew of "know-it-alls" put up a long (and pretty self-involved thread) about
>how the same functionality could be done this way and that, blah, blah,
>blah. However, none demonstrated how the average business owner who wouldn't
>know that GNU wasn't some furry animal could do it. Dave's programs are
>menu-driven, configuration file aware, simple to use affairs that nearly
>anyone, including plain business owners who run filePro and not programmers,
>can run. They are available. They are supported. They are not always "cheap"
>and never "free", but they are fantastic. For example, I couldn't get along
>without DATAPIPE or FLWEBPUB... or for that matter FLWEBLINK. Each a
>fantastic program in its own right. I'll put up some examples and links
>later.  In the meantime, here are some of Dave's comments and I know 99% of
>the audience here agree with him.
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Stauble [mailto:dave at soundideas.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:30 AM
>To: john at valar.com
>Subject: filePro list
>
>
>(You can post this...)
>
>John,
>
>I can't believe how it's so "tit for tat" with groups like this - like
>little
>children on a playground.  It's like they just sit at their computer waiting
>for someone to "screw up" so they can show their "superior knowledge" of the
>topic at hand by detailing how wrong and stupid something the victim is
>doing
>is.  But with the inherent difficulty of getting points across clearly with
>e-mail without writing a novel and the impossibility of knowing the true
>experience level of the writer, these vultures often misinterpret what
>someone is saying and go off on a tangent over some little detail to prove
>how "smart" they are.
>
>Does someone actually think I don't know to move a running binary?  Who
>cares about classifying someone else's development as being on a "test" vs
>"semi-production" system?  Over the last 18+ years I've developed more
>successful commercial products in both UNIX and Windows than most (all?) of
>the "experts" combined - and have many more in progress.  There's a lot of
>stuff I know and a lot of stuff I don't know.  That's life for every single
>one of us.  And that's a good thing because life would be horribly boring
>if there wasn't actually something new to learn.
>
>Whether it's this group or other ones that I've come across, I get totally
>disgusted with how computer geeks sit and yell at one another about little
>details trying to prove whose schlong is bigger or how far they can piss.
>
>The world is a lot bigger and more complicated than all that, and there's
>much more important things to do than just berate each other under the guise
>of being helpful.  I've dealt with a number of people on this list over the
>years that I know are good people just trying to get more out of their
>systems (and I've dealt with the other ones too...).  I've been asked to be
>part of this list by different people numerous times over the years but the
>nitpicking little detail "know-it-alls" (who don't really know as much as
>they think) are such a turn-off that they destroy any interest in it
>- showing that not much has changed since the spatting days of Linda
>Hapner's T-BUG newsletter back in the 80s...
>
>More importantly, I can't help but believe that this seriously stifles many
>softer-shelled users from asking for help because they fear the impending
>backlash if they ask something "obvious" or don't explain themselves
>properly.  And that defeats the whole reason for user groups in the first
>place.
>
>I've found it's just better to search with Google to go straight to the
>answer and skip all the washer-woman bickering crap.  Maybe someday all the
>self-proclaimed experts will wake up and realize that by helping others in
>a non-denigrating way and looking at the big picture instead of all the
>little picky details, they might actually gain some respect and appreciation
>from someone else who knows a hell of a lot more than them in some other
>area, but happens to be looking for help in this one.
>
>OK, I'm done with my tirade.  Thanks for "standing up for me" against the
>"bullies".  Back to real work...
>
>Dave
>
>-------------------------------
>David Stauble
>dave at soundideas.com
>
>Sound Ideas Of America, Inc.
>www.soundideas.com
>--------------------------------
>UNIX/PC/PDA software development
>and web page design services
>--------------------------------
>
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