OT: A political/personal review (was - RE: Two for the road, Report from Clerk & Nonstandard Subtotals)

[Lerebours, Jose]

Passed through the list check point and delivered to
us via John Essak:

[ snip ] 

> 
> Once again, Jay has deftly managed to take a good thread and 
> turn it into
> pure bullshit... that is the only word for it. Even though we were all
> trying to generate some good filePro threads and  doing it 
> purposefully and
> carefully... Jay decided, probably just because of this... to 
> turn it all
> into his usual brand of crap.
> 
> So be it. I know where things stand... Howie knows where 
> things stand... 99%
> of the list knows where it all is....
> 

NOTE: Extremely long ... 

I tried very hard to stay away from this thread but I won't or
perhaps, I simply cannot.

John post was offensive to me as a reader let alone to Brian.  I
think it was insulting and as usual, questioned a member's skills
and intelligence.  Why should John denounce Brian skills as lower
than Howie?  I have seen some of Howie's post to this list and they
leave much to question coming from Howie - They are proof that
even Howie does NOT know it all (John is on that plato on his own).

John intensions were good (he simply intended to feed his ego) but
he turned red when he found that others have been doing same as 
good, and he fears better than him.  So, he does what he normally 
does, starts attacking, questioning, undermining and offending 
others.  He is on a slugfest with three members of the list (Jay, 
Brian and Jeff).  While Brian and Jeff appear as victims by way 
only John can justify, Jay got his blows because he let John know 
what we all noticed but dared not say it.

Let me be blunt -  There is nothing that John can write that must
of us could not (not in filePro any way).  If he knows awk, sed, C,
C++, Java, Perl, Spanish, English, German, and God knows how many
other languages ... Who cares?  The fact remains, we are all
developers in our own rights.  We all get the job done (I know I do)!

I do not know much about Brian but if I were a gambling man, I
would bet Brian can dance around John at the OS level (pick an OS).
If given a task, I am sure Brian can write the needed filePro code
as well or better than John - If not, why not?  What evidence do we
have to support otherwise?  John has always have a group of followers
and loosing them is his greatest fear.  With leaders like this, is
no wonder the filePro community is and has been a dying breed. 

John compares Brian to Howie based on the number of years they have
both programmed.  I cannot agree with number of years as the reason
why one is better than the other (if in fact that is the case).  We
all know some one who has been developing in filePro from 20+ years
and yet, he/she has no idea what arrays are for, he/she still 
defining 700+ fields files instead of normalizing using small tables.
That said, 20+ years of experience have really not made him/her a
good developer.  In the same token, we can find young (hopefully)
developers that put filePro to the challenge and push it to the limits
and start developing in ways the 20+ year experience developer can
only dream of.

Jeff questioned why is John's way better if one can obtain the same
end-results in a much simpler fashion and John lashes out ... follows
up with 

<<<<<<<<<<<< SNIP FROM A POST >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And incidentally, since I'm getting the last word. I don't look at or care
what Jeff puts in his headers. I asked him to keep his comments directed to
the list and _not_ to my inbox. If he, or anyone, continues sending to both
addresses, it makes no whit of difference in the amount of work I have to do
in determining this in order to answer only one of the messages.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Later, in a much calm and possibly after realizing that he was
beheading one of his most supportive members John retracts and tries to
appease himself with Jeff.

Reaction?  Who knows!

While Jay rarely ever posts material that one could go "Wow, that is nice,
I think I can use that!", he is a member of the list and a long time filePro
user.  If his mission on this list is to poke holes so be it.  Ignore him.
What right does any one on this list, but the host himself, has to police
the list and openly judge others and even suggest that members of the list
should cast him out ... ?

I do not care much for John self appointed "GURU" status.  I respect him
as an individual but do not look up to him as one he wants to position 
himself to be.  I respect Howie but I have more respect for Ken, Brian
and others in the list that are a lot more active and offer a lot more
assistance.  Howie rarely ever (if ever) offers a solution on this list
and since I know no one personally, my respect comes simply from what I've
observe through this medium.  I have had the pleasure of working JP and
have a lot of respect for him - He is hard hitting but he means well.  I
do not know Mark but have a lot of respect for him and his unparallel Linux,
Perl skills.  We all know Bob is the master in 'awk' but I have nothing to say
about him one way nor the other.  Jeff is a constant participant and easily
one of the most active.  Jim, while not a filePro developer by trade, no
doubt one that has made our lives easier with his great contributions.  There
are many others that post on this list and expect nothing in return ... and
if rarely ever find themselves in conflict with some one else and start 
exchanging hard words.  

This thread is the second thread John is involved and a flame break out.  If
you take the time to read them, you will find that John always uses the
very language he claims others use, he finds offensive but never employs them
himself.

John, stop it!  We are not your children (at least, I am not).  As far as I am
concerned, no one on this list is my voice nor I pretend to be yours.

"Can't we all get alone?"

Regards;


Jose Lerebours