More on fP 6.0 features

[Fairlight]

Four score and seven years--eh, screw that!
At about Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 11:08:27AM -0400,
Nancy Palmquist blabbed on about:
> Fairlight wrote:
> 
> >>There are features to expand the core product and enhance the product for
> >>existing developers, and there are features to attract new developers.
> > 
> > There's also such a thing as only breaking even.  What good is attracting
> > new developers if you stop being able to hold onto the ones you already
> > have?  You don't gain ground that way, you tread water.
> 
> I think as a long time developer with filePro I really wanted to weight 
> in on this point.  My current applications and all my installed systems 
> work just fine with the filePro language as it is right now.  I have 
> trouble convicing these people to take advantage of the new features - 
> since that would require new development  and that costs money.

Actually, I think you wanted to weigh in, but I shan't belabour the point.

Great, Nancy.  Kudos to you and your talent with the existing toolset.
However, there are -others- out there (with whom I work regularly) who -do-
need 'x' widget, 'y' knob, and if they don't get them, you can wave merrily
at them as they depart for greener pastures where such features abound, and
which let them easily interact with heterogeneous software very easily,
rather than jumping through 25000 hoops.

> However, adding developers will add users - more users than if you just 
> sell filePro to the end user type developers.  I know only a few 
> developers that use filePro exclusively and make a full time living at 
> using it for development.  There are much more in-house developers that 
> work for the end-user full time.  These people, while very important, do 
> not add many users to the list.

It's just the opposite from my PoV.  You have your application developers
like yourself and others out there who sell their product to multiple
companies and thus move at least runtimes.  You have your in-house people
who buy one devkit and maybe a runtime, and they're good for an infinite
amount of time because they -are- in-house, and don't really resell
anything for the most part (with a few exceptions).  I'm not sure where you
get developed your rationale, but my observations differ vastly--besides
meshing far more with basic common sense.

> I see where the Biometrics could attact new developers and build that 
> base where someone will take a chance and invest in the time to develop 
> for a niche and sell many units into that niche.

Pardon the analogy, but that's like building the one of the world's most
sophisticated snowplow blade--complete with teflon coating, a tritanium
edge, and all the goodies--and then strapping it it to the front of a '56
Chevy pickup.  Sure, the blade may be impressive, but what's driving it
isn't quite as robust as a 2004 Ford F-150, much less one of the big
diesel-slurping boys they bring out in the dead of winter during a blizzard.

And niche is -precisely- the problem they have right now.  They -need- to
get mainstream if they want to survive in the long haul, period.  You can
disagree all you like.  I don't think you'll see sales rocket (or even
moderately twitch) unless they can get with it in some modern connectivity
at the least.

> I think there needs to be some buzz in the market about filePro - Rapid 
> Development capability - or as a front end to ODBC data (excellent use 
> for filePro).  Discussing it here amongst the choir is a waste of time. 
>   I want to see it in mags, forums, web links, - anywhere and everywhere.

You won't see that, in all likelihood, because it hasn't progressed very
much in the last decade.  They released 4.5, 4.8, and 5.0.  Aside from
ODBC (now sold separately anyway), what have you gotten?  Blobs/memos, memo
printing, long variable names, a handful of new functions (including raw
I/O) that were probably trivial to implement, and new indexes.  Not a heck
of a huge leap in evolutionary terms, here.

What's to advertise?  You need more features and to dump some of the legacy
limitations (80x25) before you can tout it as the next best thing since
sliced bread in today's marketplace, or you're simply tossing money away at
advertising that won't generate any tangible and return.  The expectation
of return on investment for major marketing would be (IMHO) entirely wasted
at this point in time.  Now if they abstract the fP storage and let you
plug into *SQL data sources at will, suddenly you'd have a RAD toolkit for
-every- database out there, complete with simple language, fast UI and
report design, and you'd -have- something you could toot your horn about.
Especially since it seems nobody does terminal/console stuff anymore--most
everything is GUI or web-based now.

> IMHO - That will expand the market faster than any features.  Sell what 
> you got - not what you will have - someday.

"What you got" isn't readily marketable in comparison to the feature sets
people are used to in other areas.  If it was, people that have been
long-time fP users and even advocates wouldn't be leaving in a semi-steady
stream.  You're not going to convince people to give up their *SQL (even
MSSQL, God save their souls) and all the power and flexibility they have
for RAD that could, quite frankly, be designed -for- other engines and then
re-marketed.  I'm saying, you have the RAD part done already, make it
applicable to all reasonable manner of database engines, and then you have
something with -incredibly- increased viability.  Of course, the UI needs
some tweaks, like nuking screen sizes, before it'd be 100%, but even with
that ancient limitation, it'd still rock thrown on top of any other engine.

Nothing personal, but you've -always- been a status quo sort of developer,
Nancy.  It's nothing new--it's evidenced by your posts from the last five
years, if not the last 11 years.  You generally don't care about seeing
anything new unless you need it, which is rare since you're usually content
to just muddle through and create a workaround, if you even need it.  IOW,
you don't tax the limits of the system, and therefore you haven't outgrown
your sandbox yet.  Others have, and are in the process of doing so, and
they can't afford to be status quo--their organisations won't permit it if
they're in-house, and their prospects pass them by if they're application
developers/resellers.  The application itself isn't competitive in any area
except one--console/terminal/printer RAD--and it comes with the baggage of
a less-than-stellar storage engine for which little effort has gone into
making it interoperable in heterogeneous environments that are far more
prevalent today than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinions, as I am mine.  I think TPTB
would be ill-advised to base decisions based on yours, but That's Just Me.
It's not personal, I just see the situation entirely differently.  Keep in
mind--you may do the conferences (even teaching at them), you may be on the
advisory council, and you're a longtime developer.  However, you're one
developer that occasionally talks to people about doing things.  Most of
what I do is help -multiple- people from various backgrounds, experience
levels, and environments figure out how to get from A to B with what's
present.  I can't say for sure, but I'd take a rough guess that I talk
in-depth about developers' needs with more people than you do--probably
because most times I'm talking to someone, they -need- something.  It's
sort of the nature of my work--either something is broken, or something is
needed.  You only have to worry about your end-users' needs.  That's fine,
and if it's working for you, I can see why you don't feel change is needed.

If you open your eyes and ears and stop singing, "La La La! -- I can't hear
youuuuu!" long enough (about ten minutes should suffice), you'll see that
other people actually -do- have needs that must be met, or fP goes bye-bye
in their shop--or in their development.  I know several people that tossed
away 15-20+ years of fP experience and investment because it no longer cut
it for them under varying circumstances.

Until you can stem the flow of exodus, marketing for new users is pretty
insane.  Figure out why people are departing and eliminate those reasons
before wasting the capital on an advertising campaign that will fizzle.
That's common sense business strategy, not rocket science.  It just happens
to be undiluted by years of emotional investment, which is probably why
many don't agree with it or want to hear it.

Anyone notice that the list seems to have gathered more fP newbies lately?
They seem to have inherited systems that old-timers left for whatever
reasons.  Five will get you ten that, wise reinvestment or not, 40%+ of
them will eventually decide to go with something more mainstream and write
their entire organisation's application set in something else because it's
more accepted and standard.  Yes, that speaks to another point as well--you
can tell a CEO that *SQL has a standard behind it.  They understand that.
They understand interoperability as well.  You point to an isolated product
and its merits, and they go, "Yes, but will it plug into our existing
software?"  And there, you start getting into Workaround Land.  And much as
you'd like to tout fPODBC, that's still Windows-only, and the *nix shops
are out of luck there.  And believe it or not, there -are- still many that
refuse to run Windows servers and share my disdain for them in a server role.
Take that away, and your realtime interoperability capacity is next to nil.

In spite of everything I've said, I think fP has its high points, and could
be brought to bear on a much bigger market than it currently targets.  They
have to take a few steps, mildly change the direction a bit, but it could
happen.  But if it doesn't evolve, it won't grow the user base no matter
how much glossy paper and coloured ink you toss at people.

YMMV.  I'm neither trying to incite, nor am I really up for a flame or
religious war.  I'm trying to provide TPTB (assuming they even watch
or care) with objective analysis which they can take or leave at their
leisure.  If you or anyone cares to disagree and present counterpoints,
such is your right and they may benefit from that as well--I could be
wrong.  I don't happen to believe I am, but I know I could be.  Point
being, this isn't a flame or even knocking the product--this is simply how
I interpret the long-term data I've observed.

mark->
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