: Political banter..

[Bill Campbell]

On Tue, May 18, 2004, Bill Vermillion wrote:
>On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 09:02:51PM -0400, Fairlight thus spoke:
>> >From inside the gravity well of a singularity, GCC Consulting shouted:
>
>> > Freedom of speech, yes. down right lying no. He lied to his
>> > listeners and not a political lie. The constitution protects
>> > political speech not all speech. More then yelling fire in a
>> > theater is unconstitutional.
>
>> Well that's not unconstitutional, it's just illegal.  Technically, the
>> law that forbids it is probably unconstitutional, but since it's a
>> relatively sensible law, nobody will challenge it. 
>
>There are many laws that modify the 1st ammendment's free speech.
>Sedition is punishable.
>
>The saying about FALSLEY yelling fire in a crowded theatre was
>never a legal decision, but a comment made in the trial of
>Charles Schenck - head of the Socialist Party of The United States
>who was found guilyt of of attempting inusubordination of soldiers
>drafted into World War I.   That would fit under the definition of
>sedition which was made a crime in the late 1700s.

The sedition law in the U.S. was overturned early in the 1800s.

As John Perry Barlowe pointed out, on the Internet the U.S.  Constitution
is a local ordinance, not applicable in most of the world (and largely
ignored in the U.S. since 1861 or so).

....
>> Yeah, and I happen to think that's BS. If it's -factual-
>> and not actually libel, they should NOT be held liable for
>> anything.

Theoretically in the U.S. that's true, but it wouldn't protect you from the
legal fees associated with defending yourself.

In Australia and the U.K. truth isn't necessarily relevant if one says
something against the government or elected officials.  Then again in those
countries one isn't a citizen, but a subject.

>The 'whistleblower' laws were enacted to protect those who choose
>to speak out.  However not all whistleblowers have been protected
>as they should, and those who committed the infractions are often
>treated lightly.  The ADM [Archer Daniels Midland] price fixing
>case levied the highest fines ever - ADM agreed to pay $100,000,000
>in fines.  You may not recognize the name, but at times there are
>coporate ads on TV and the phrase "supermarket to the world is
>used".  The $100M fine was just another blip as they had paid out
>over $90M in civil and anti-trust law suits.

ADM has considerable influence in the U.S. Senate and House.  ADM was the
primary beneficiary of the mandated Federal ``oxygenated'' fuel
requirements that didn't reduce emissions, and often increased fuel
consumption by about 1/3 (at least that was the case with my car).

>It was not front page as price fixing in the lysine market doesn't
>grab headlines like the high cost of gasoline, even though the
>price fixing drove up the cost of food for everyone.
>
>The person who helped the goverment seal the case was also
>imprisoned because of his involvement, but the higher ups had
>their crimes pardoned by then President Clinton on his last day
>in office, while the person who sealed their fate is still in
>prison.

Viagra Bob was a strong supporter of ADM as well.

Bill
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