chicken and egg (was Re: Augury and ...)

[Ron Kracht]

Fairlight wrote:

>I think an example would certainly help, as I'm having trouble accepting
>your premise without one.  I'm not usually unimaginative, but I'm either
>missing your point entirely, or being a dullard on this particular issue.
>Toss me a bone, here.
>  
>
It will a very small bone since (1) this is way off topic and (2) I'm in 
the midst of one project that is already an interruption of another 
project where I am way behind schedule, (3) given your discussion of  
"fine enough granularity" I'm not sure anything less than a full blown 
essay will explain the difference.

The entire world is not digital - sometimes it really is analog. Along 
these lines I will cite Justice Potter Stewart's ruling with regard to 
pornography -  "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of 
material I understand to be embraced . . . [b]ut I know it when I see it 
. . . "

The point at which something stops being one thing and becomes another 
is not always clearly defined.

I know I'm going to regret the following example because for people who 
are inclined to think in black and white rather than shades of gray it 
still will not make sense. I will not address those who think in color 
except to say that they need to lower their dosage :-)

Have you every been through an iterative design process where the final 
design bore very little, if any, resemblance to the original design? 
Perhaps on a project of your own, perhaps for a customer who doesn't 
quite know what he wants but will know it when he sees it? I did one of 
those 20 years ago for a good friend. I even gave him a special rate. By 
the time I was done I realized that (1) I would have done better working 
at McDonald and (2) always refer friends to someone else who 'is better 
at the kind of programming you need'.  Marking the point in that 
iterative process where the design became the 'final design' and all 
changes after that were refinements can be a subjective judgment, as can 
answering the question - which came first the design or the 
implementation. Sure a design came first but it certainly wasn't _the_ 
design. Sure an implementation came last but that, most likely was a 
only refinement of _the_ implementation. 

If you still don't agree, or even see my point clearly enough to 
determine if you agree or disagree that's okay. I'll be disappointed 
that I couldn't explain my point better but it won't be the first time 
or the last time. If I continue this discussion further though it could 
lead to the first time I get fired.