OT: Linux flavors...

[Fairlight]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 02:53:21AM -0400, brian at aljex.com, the prominent pundit,
witicized:
> 
> Of course, but that's easier said than done there pastor Mark. :)

I generally don't have a problem, if people -listen-.  :)  This presumes
that they research or ask in advance in the first place, of course.  

> in freebsd) and I certainly knew about better supported cards when I
> baught it.

Well whose fault is that, then?  :)

> So much else about the machine is desirable, and unique, that in the real
> world you just have to accept the realtek nic and the broadcom wi-fi and
> the conexant winmodem. I mean, use a cardbus card that sticks out and
> must be shipped/unshipped every time you pull the machine out, when there
> is a great card with outstanding antenna built-in? Forget it!

Realtek?  I could have sworn I've seen sources that say they're quite
possibly THE worst NICs made.  I thought the FBSD world shunned them for
precisely that reason.

And the machine is desirable?  'PITA to admin' ne 'desirable', IMHO.

> Of course you should be aware of compatibility issues and at least try
> to head them off difficulties if it's possible by simply choosing a
> different machine at buy-time, but don't make it sound like it's just a
> simple matter of a little forethought.

It -is- though.  You have a machine specification present.  If it's not
compatible with what drivers you have to work with, without going with
proprietary drivers, the solution -is- as simple as not buying it, and
instead getting something that -does- fit reasonable standards.  How is
that at all complicated?

You're basically saying that you know darned well ahead of time that it has
'x' hardware, that this is a PITA to deal with, and you bought it anyway.
I'd say that falls under "a simple matter of a little forethought", as you
so appropriately phrased it.  Or in the case of doing it anyway, lack
thereof.

I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree.  You can enjoy the headaches of
maintaining such a system to your heart's content.  I'll enjoy the fact
that the machines I've had a say (and veto) in speccing out all run without
any proprietary driver dinking.

Pretty much HW rule #1 for me is:  "NO PROPRIETARY KERNEL DRIVERS"

It's that simple.  This is borne initially out of the long history of the
i2o fiasco, when updates waited for client systems because they -insisted-
on purchasing and installing 3200/3400 cards that required the driver.
When security holes popped up and drivers were well nigh impossible to pry
from Adaptec, that -is a problem-.  I don't like insecure systems.  When
the only thing that holds up closing a hole is the ill-purchased hardware
that someone decided to base a system on, it's a sign that someone needs
to look a lot harder at their hardware choices.  And given the state of
today's security situation, where a patch could be needed in a big hurry at
the drop of a hat, I personally never again want to be sitting on a system
that -can't- be updated because the drivers haven't been released, may be
released when they feel like releasing them, or may never release them.  I
refuse to let myself (or any client, if I can help it) be held hostage to
that kind of situation.  And Adaptec wasn't and isn't the only culprit.
I've seen more than a few poor hardware choices.  Hell, I've seen someone
buy TWO -loaded- HP NetServers -specifically- to run Linux on as a
migration from SCO, and they were SOL because the integrated
Adaptec-compatible SCSI was running one of the aic7xxx chips that -wasn't-
supported by the driver.  They ended up doing the whole thing for nothing,
in the end.  They never bothered checking something that important.

At any rate...

Hey...if you think leaving a system wide open for months is fine because
you get the pleasure of a "neat" system, be my guest.  However, you
pretty much forfeit any right to complain about getting cracked if it
comes to pass because you -couldn't- upgrade.  I'm not saying "you"
specifically, I'm saying "you" in the sense of any anonymous "one" that
might do something like that.  Systems tend to stop being "neat" when they
stop working entirely until you fix something major.

I'll take stability, security, and -standard- compatibility (ie., rolled-in
and consistantly maintained drivers) over flash and glitz--any day of the
week.  No second thoughts.  No guessing.  Not even hedging.  I've seen the
results of turning the other way.

mark->
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