OT: click license (was Re: Software Licensing and Sanity (was...))

[Anthony Terrible]

Basically you can challenge anything. I think most software licensing is
illegal and wouldn't hesitate in challenging it if I had a reason to. You go
to a hospital for surgery or cell phone contract, you sign a contract that
says if there is any dispute you have to go to arbitration. Well that clause
is illegal and won't stand up in court. That amount's to taking away your
right to trial in a court of law which no one can take away any of your
rights. If the contract is illegal it doesn't matter if you sign it or not
it's still illegal. If those "contracts" you sign before surgery would stand
up in court then doctors could never be sued for malpractice and we all know
that's not true. I don't believe software is in a class all of it's own. As
long as I'm not copying their product and reselling it what I do with it is
my business. I can change it modify it any way I want. I also think I could
modify software and resell it as modified software as long as I bought an
original copy every time I made a sell. There are too many instances of this
in many many industries and it's not illegal so I find it hard to believe
that it would be with software.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fairlight" <fairlite at fairlite.com>
To: "filePro mailing list" <filepro-list at seaslug.org>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: OT: click license (was Re: Software Licensing and Sanity
(was...))


> >From inside the gravity well of a singularity, Kenneth Brody shouted:
> >
> > Well, I don't know if it's been challenged recently in the courts, but
I've
> > seen "click to agree" license agreements that require you to (1) scroll
down
> > through the entire text of the agreement before enabling the box for
step 2,
> > (2) click on an "I agree" box, and finally (3) click "proceed".
> >
> > Yes, it's still possible for you kid/cat/cup of coffee do all of these
for
> > you, but it's less likely.  I guess the idea is to make it harder for
you
> > to claim "but I didn't agree to that".  (Though anyone who's seen Alex
on a
> > computer could easily testify that, having him see it done once, could
do it
> > himself if he so chose.)
>
> I wouldn't be so much concerned about kid/cat/cup of coffee.  I've seen
> those as well.  But the thing is knowing that there are going to be a
whole
> slew of people out there who have seen so many ludicrous EULA's that are
> pretty much written in legalese anyway, that they'll just assume it's the
> same ol' BS, scroll down, select, and click anyway, without even bothering
> to read -any- of the text.  It's "just another one of those annoying
> licenses...".  *Scroll, scroll scroll, click, click*  "Finally.  Damned
> thing.  Just let me install it, already!"
>
> It's obviously happened many millions of times over with M$'s Passport
> system, as the EULA snags in that came as quite a shock to many once
> someone actually bothered to look at it closely.  And that's -one- thing.
> Start multiplying.
>
> By the time someone's done purchasing the software in the first place,
most
> probably don't give a damn.  "You pays your money, you gets your software,
> and you installs it!"  I suspect that, "You takes your chances," falls in
> there twice--both with the stability of said software -and- the sneaky
> EULA's.
>
> FWIW, our industry isn't the only one with patently absurd terms.
> Apparently the cellular industry is worse.  I was reading a recent article
> somewhere (I think from GripeLine) about Cingular.  Now I've been with
them
> for 2 years and never had a problem--they've even bent over backwards to
> honour a quote that went against their plan, as recently as 2 weeks ago.
> But some people have had nightmares with them, Verizon, and several
others.
> But those are -real- contracts.  Actually, I read mine in full when I
> signed up two years ago.  I honestly didn't read the full thing again when
> I just resigned on for another two years, but at $240 early cancellation,
> prorated, it's not -that- big a deal.  I don't see bailing early anyway.
> So far, they've been 10x as good as BellSouth -or- GTE.  (Yes, I'm aware
> that BellSouth owns half of them...the contrast of which never ceases to
> amaze me.)
>
> I'll read real contracts in full before signing them.  I'll question
> points--I've even made modifications, which is perfectly legal if both
> parties sign thereafter.  (Actually, when you visit a doctor, they pay SO
> little attention that I'm tempted to cross out and initial the clause
> saying I agree to pay the balance that my insurance won't cover, and let
> them sign off on it after that, never having noticed.  Haven't tried it
> yet, but it's tempting.  I wonder if that would hold up...probably not,
> since they don't sign their own contracts.)
>
> I'd be lying if I said I don't often skim clickware EULA's if I even
bother
> at all.  I'll read them more carefully if I have a doubt about it, like if
> it's a subscription-based game where my credit card is involved.  But most
> of the time, "Yadda yadda yadda."  And I think a lot of people are like
> that, especially in light of the return/refund situation once it's opened.
> People have become so inured to the omnipresent things that it's like
> electrical outlets--you don't even notice them until the power grid goes
> down during a storm.
>
> mark->
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